Blm vs bundy

[Rattlesnake Jim]

I said it on another Forum, Most of these ranchers, think just because they have grazing cattle on BLM land it belongs to them, It does not, And the ones out here, will lie and tell you its there land, get off no prospecting, Prospectors and cattle people are at odds here. Grubstake

That's easy to fix. I told a rancher to call the sheriff. I told him he only had grazing rights and not the mineral rights. Would he like to explain that to the sheriff? We became friends after that.

[Rattlesnake Jim]

This is what I read;

"Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his heard’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying."

This is what agencies do in other areas. They make policy that contradicts law and/or previous agreements.

They do this to miners all the time; they try to make them believe that their policy is equal to law change.

We are lucky this has happened to show how the feds think they own and control everything. If you don't stick up for your rights, you don't have any.

RSJ

[AZNuggetBob]

Well lets see this is a mining forum.

Ive fought with the cattle rancher's for years over mining rights. many of them thought because they had grazing rights it was theirs. Wrong if you look at the old mining rights laws you will see mining rights rule over grazing rights AzNuggetbob

[AZNuggetBob]

Do what you want ,have fun. AznuggetBob

[Glenn]

It is a shame that more ranchers don't side with miners when we have disputes with govt agencies, but maybe this will open more eyes to dig through other sources of media than the controlled sites and see if there isn't an agenda to systematically dismantle our rights in order to sell this country off to whoever holds the most debt of our govt. I hate having to be so suspicious of my own government, but this is no longer the country I grew up in, I was born on a military base and I have two sons in the military, my family has been here since 1652, but something has really changed in the last 30 years and it seems to be moving faster.

[frank c]

ALL THAT IS NESSESSARY FOR EVIL MEN TO TAKE AND REMAIN IN CONTROL,.............
IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING .

[AZNuggetBob]

Glen, Good luck. AzNuggetBob

[AZNuggetBob]

ALL THAT IS NESSESSARY FOR EVIL MEN TO TAKE AND REMAIN IN CONTROL,.............
IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING .

Ya right Frank I can see you jumping out your your lounge chair any minute. AzNuggetBob

[AZNuggetBob]

And nothing bothers me more than when someone copies cut/past a huge text and thinks they know, but dont know what their talking about. Gold Seeker. AzNuggetBob

[frank c]

So Sorry to disappoint you Bob but I don't own a "lounge chair".
Its absolutely amazing the impressions people can get of each other from the internet experience and not ever having really met in person and gotten to know each other.
Happy Huntn Kid.

[NvDoug]

Kudos Frank !!! I live by that rule on a day to day basis when I am out and about. It only takes one to stand up and confront evil doings (no matter what that evil is) to have many come forward and have your back.

I do not know all the facts of BLM vs Bundy and have no comment on who is right. Do I think its over.... not by a long shot. But ... if some one owes you money... do you go and confiscate their car? There are legal ways to recover funds that 'We the People' are held too or we become suspect. That same accountability should be held for any agency. I have yet to read anywhere that Mr. Bundy has been arrested for not paying a Court ordered restitution of owed fee's, to which the legal acquisition of funds should then be commenced, once he is confirmed guilty and in jail. I believe we call this 'Due Process'.

[Glenn]

There is another rancher in Nevada that finally won in court against blm and in a 107 page ruling the judge ruled that blm conspired to take the mans land and water rights and the judge even held several blm employees in contemp and advised a prosecutor to look into criminal charges, his name is Hage, all the info is public. I would just like to metal detect in peace with being harassed and run off of our public lands, but so much for the new reality, hope to run into all you fine people in the gold fields, good luck all.

[AZNuggetBob]

Frank you know I'm messen with ya, Im no spring chicken. But I like haven fun when it comes to mining. I look forward to meeting you some day, I like building stuff too. and Ive heard about your drywashers. AzNuggetBob

[Gold Seeker]

And nothing bothers me more than when someone copies cut/past a huge text and thinks they know, but dont know what their talking about. Gold Seeker. AzNuggetBob

Sorry that bothered you so much, but since it does, don't read it! Bob

I didn't post my opinion on this subject so you have no idea of what I know of this subject.

I did post on what is being reported for others to ponder, I even posted the link, the reason I copied the text to here was because I know that some will not click on a link if they don't know if the site has some harmful content that may affect their computer.

I'm not sure why you're taking almost every post on this subject personally, do you have some stake in what is going on there?

[goldstudmuffin]

Feds Forced to Surrender to American Citizens

[AZNuggetBob]

Gold Seeker I don't have a problem with you .but there are a lot of assholes that think Bundy is Right. good luck. If Bundy would have paid his grazing fees? because the feds would not have a case? Listen dont get it in a wad before you even consider replying to me Got it! AzNuggetBob

[Gold Seeker]

Bob,

I don't get into a "wad" as you put it, ever, I just reply in kind when I feel that I have been unnecessarily attacked.

Since I haven't voiced my thoughts/opinion, I will, my opinion of this matter is basically how the BLM has gone about this whole matter, closing off an enormous area to the public, I understand that is to protect their operation but they do this with a heavy hand and in a highly military setting, which is very unnecessary, IMHO, setting up roped off 1st amendment areas and harassing any who steps out of those roped areas, I also understand that US courts have determined that such areas are legal, but I don't agree with that ruling, and that IMHO is not what our Forefathers had in mind when they wrote the Constitution and which includes the 1st amendment, I do believe that the government has and is stepping further and further outside the Constitution, and it will not stop until the people start and continue to stand up for their rights under the Constitution, which this Bundy incident is a start to something that should continue until we show the government that we aren't going to stand for our rights to be trampled on any longer.

We as miners/prospectors know this more so than many other citizens of this country.

[DOC]

Bottom line is you have no idea how close this came to blood shed. I have a good friend in law enforcement who was on the scene. He said it could have gone either way. The BLM backed down and pulled out and they escorted them out of there while rocks were being thrown etc. Before that the BLM were outnumbered with each side pointing guns at each other.

So has there been some big incident of tortoises being trampled by cows or something?

NOPE. This is a very sleazy land deal that some politicians stand to make a lot of money over. As far as Bundy owing grazing fees, well as an American taxpayer, he can have my portion of his grazing fees. This is the old west out here. Looking out over the land and seeing the cows roaming free, I think it's sort of neat.

Grazing fees on BLM land? How about prospecting fees on BLM land, is that next?

My God the Federal Government has been subsidizing farmers for ever, they feed the world. What about giving a break to a cattle man? I mean $1 million dollars? I read last week the Obama's hotel bill for one night in a foreign country was over $15 million dollars. What's he ever done for the United States.

We are more hated in the world now than ever before. More people have lost their insurance than have gotten insurance. We have lost the respect of our allies. We have basically given the finger to Israel. Race relations are at an all time low as the government continues their spread the wealth around, or the steal from the people who work their ass off and give it to those who have figured out how to scam the system.

This is not the government the founders of our country meant us to have. And it cuts both ways, democrats, republicans, they all suck.

I am a constitutional conservative. I believe that for 99% of the things, States should decide what happens in their states. They should administer welfare, education, health, etc. The Federal Govt. should be there for the sole purpose of insuring uniformity in laws which affect all states. In other words, they should standards for Flight Controllers because everyone has to be trained the same. Airline pilots, etc. etc.

In all other matters, they should butt out. We have allowed the government to become a behemoth that thinks we exist to pay them and keep them in power.

Doc

[Gold Seeker]

Doc, I agree with you 100%, I'm aware how close this came to bloodshed even without the insider info you have, anytime you have armed government agents and armed citizens confronting one another that is a very real possibility, I didn't mean too insinuate that an armed protest/s should be the correct way to go about stopping the erosion of our rights and getting the ones that have already been trampled on back, but I feel with the momentum of what has happened there should not stop so the government knows that we have finally had enough of them stepping on the Constitution.

I would really like this incident too open the eyes of our Representatives so they realize that things need to change and soon before the next time when blood may very well be shed!

[Glenn]

Just an update, I have just heard from a source on site that blm has not left the area and three snipers have been spotted in the hills above the camping area, I am not there but this source has been spot on throughout this whole thing, just hoping and praying they aren't trying to provoke.

[shep]

Doc and Gold Seeker, I'm on your side, not behind you, but by your side. 3 snipers? I'll side with the deer and elk hunters on the right side. Bring em on.

[shep]

Another point, I haven't seen hostilities between those metal detecting on grazing lands (BLM) and cattlemen when it's made clear you fill your holes and close gates. Had a good repore w/ one cattleman over there who tried to help, just couldn't find a flake. Dang!

[deathray]

How can any red blooded American miner be on the feds side in this??? Baffling. Screw the BLM and their tactics..and screw Harry Reid who is probably behind this.

[jjbond]

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/04/13/surrender-blm-strategic-de-escalation/

[jjbond]

It was easy to run federal agents off wasn't it? It was too easy.

http://bobpowell.blogspot.ca/2014/04/dhs-insider-bundy-ranch-standoff-not.html

In this episode of The Truth Is Viral, host Bobby Powell puts together several pieces of information that have surfaced sine the BLM "withdrew" and conceded to the demands of Cliven Bundy. Bundy is the Nevada rancher who stood toe-to-toe with nearly 1,000 heavily federal agents for over a week. Fortunately for Bundy, thousands of unarmed protestors - and militia that were armed just as well as the federal agents were standing shoulder-to-shoulder with him.

But, as reported to investigative journalist Doug Hagmann - co-host of the Hagmann and Hagmann report along with his son Joe - by a highly-placed source inside the Department of Homeland Security, the BLM withdrawal was a fake. The entire standoff was, according to Hagmann's DHS informant, a real world exercise designed to determine what kind of resistance the federal government will face should gun confiscations begin.

From this observer's perspective that resistance will be fierce. The feds should probably buy Depends by the truckload because people are pissed, and from what we saw on alternative media livestreams broadcast during the standoff many of them are ready to rock and roll.

Acting on a tip from a view who said that he saw "many, many, many" men in military uniform and federal agents checking IN to hotels around the Bundy ranch, after the BLM allegedly stood down, when they should have been checking out, TTiV Publisher/Editor-in-Chief Bobby Powell called area hotels and confirmed that there is not a single room available anywhere near the Bundy ranch.

The response of one young lady who answered the phone at the Holiday Inn in Mesquite Nevada will chill you to the bone.