"WALCO PICKS SHOVES IT UP DOC'S ARSE!!"


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Grubstake brought up a very interesting question - "If Doc had 400 Walco picks on backorder, how the hell could the company even think about bringing in another dealer/distributor when they couldn't even support the one they had?

Rob Allison

Quick guess-> The new ones that were going to Doc are going to the new distributor...

I hope i'm wrong but it is the most logical explanation... :(

It seems a bit odd that Walco wouldn't know that the whole prospecting thing over here is a pretty tight knit group and throwing their sole distributor under the bus to take up with the guy next door is not going to help them sell anything...

Why wouldn't Walco want to have two distributors in the US?

Twice the ability to sell products, twice the coverage, unless Doc didn't want to raise the price and Walco wants more $$. (Oh boy, more logic.) :unsure:

Wow, the more these things go unanswered the more ideas pop into my head... :blink:

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Hello Guys,

I've received a handful of phone calls, PM's and emails about this whole Walco pick deal. There has been some very interesting questions brought forth with very little answers.

Grubstake brought up a very interesting question - "If Doc had 400 Walco picks on backorder, how the hell could the company even think about bringing in another dealer/distributor when they couldn't even support the one they had?

Just curious if anyone has received any feedback from their emails?

Take care,

Rob Allison

I do not think anyone will be getting much in the way of an answer from Walco. They are still scratching their heads wondering what just happened!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Hello Claim Jumper,

You're probably right. However, prospecting in general is a small market, gold nugget hunting being even smaller. I wouldn't want to burn bridged with one of the biggest prospecting distributors in the US. :ph34r:

Also, seen on another forum where someone stated AZO needed to explain this. I agree, AZO don't need to explain anything. I think everyone is wondering why Walco won't explain?

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Yeh I sent two emails to them, no! Reply. I just was talking to Shep, its like him buying a heating unit for someone at a quoted price, and then driving a hundered miles to pick it up, and they say: Oh we were just offed more money for that unit, because some needs it fast. So you can either pay what they were offering or the unit goe's to them. BAD BUSINESS! Grubstake

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Rob & Doc,

As you know most of my mining is dry placer. A member of your forum Rob, joeforgold, makes the Hermit Pick. I've been using both sizes for almost 2 years now beating on calachi and they have taken the beating and kept on working. They have wore me out many a day. I'm sure Shep can build a good one also, but Joe has been building them now for a few years and I believe you should at least give him a try. Doc I know your standards and your business practices and I for one uphold you and your honor. I believe Joe can meet your standards.

Thanks, Ol'29 Prospector

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Hello Guys,

Grubstake - Several other guys PMed me and also said they didn't get a reply, but wrote very nice emails. I doubt they are going to reply to anyone.

29Prospector - Bill Southern actually gave me a Hermit pick when they first came out. I used it and it is a good, strong pick. However, I've been partial to the picks with the triangle, straight heads that are a bit smaller than the Hermit Picks. I still have a batch of Walco Picks in stock.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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On a lighter note, it all reminds me of a joke about three moles. First mole stuck his head out of the hole and looked down toward the farm house, he said boy that smells good, I smell pancakes, The secound mole stuck his head out of the hole and said boy your right it smell good! I smell butter! The third one countn't get his head up, the first two were in the way. He said I don't think anything smells good! It just smells like Mollass's to me! :P:P:P:P Grubstake

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Well there are two sides to every story and we've only heard one, personally I'd like to here what SH Wallace (SHW ) has to say.

Everything I have personally purchased from Doc has been excellent quality and shipped on time, just awesome, can't say I agree with Doc all the time but his service is great

As far as this goes in my perspective it is just business at this point given the information provided, business is not pleasant always but you have to understand that is what it is - business.

400 picks at $49.95 that's $19,980.00 US dollars, were it me I would not have been patient at all with the delayed shipment if they were just sitting on the money, if so for SHW its "short term cash flow" on a sale earning interest for the unshipped merchandise, for Doc he is losing money, literally.

Here is a question Doc:

Has SHW been sitting on your money?

Unless Doc has given out the names and addresses of his customers (which I doubt he would do) SHW can't ship the picks to them at this point, they need to return Doc's money ASAP if they have been sitting on it.

Maybe Chris is a savvy businessman who can make things happen and/or he uses his abilities or positions to his advantage, any good businessman would. Or maybe SHW likes him better than Doc or Chris' business visions are better match to SHW's visions. Its business, not friendship.

Like the old saying goes, "diversify", I'm sure Doc can find another line of picks to sell.

Will this hurt Walco sales? Probally not to any degree. Why?

I'm sure a lot of AZO customers are new customers, Chris advertises a lot and those people will never know about any of this nor should they care, onward.

Like Chris said and I agree, SHW's dealings with Doc are none of his business.

So a door closes, big deal, another will open, roll with it - adapt, improvise and overcome.

Some interesting things:

I can understand if S.H. Wallace wants to expand their distribution, but to cut me off, when I am the one who has done all the grunt work leaves me speechless.

We all take risks, and that is what it was, a risk.

Now if SHW really did you wrong, think of it as loaning a "friend" $50.00 and he never pays you back, well you got off cheap - they will never want to speak to you again. You're done with them - just get your 20k back first.

Where certain parties have tried to get them to cut me out, when I'm the one who has imported and advertised the item and made it popular.

There is certainly a lesson there.

This decision is not personal, but based on situations outside your influence.

Sure would be interesting to know what those situations were. But here again SHW has a right to their privacy and to chart their own course of business.

If anyone has any faith in Doc or the dealers that have promoted these picks since day one, please send an email to - shwallaceandco@iinet.net.au and let them know what you think.

What's the point?

SHW made it clear what they think.

Doc has promoted those picks in ICMJ and the GPAA magazines, his own catalog and in the field.

Doc promoted those picks to make money, and there is nothing wrong with that - we all have to make a living and Doc has some excellent products. Do you really think Rob this is the "end of the line?"

Let it make you and Doc smarter and stronger, no emotions, just pure business mode.

Its funny how the other dealer who is getting the dealership says the Hoden is the best. I wonder if now they will change their website to say Walco is the best???

Do you really wonder?

It is irritating to see someone who does not have the moral fiber or convictions to stand by those that help them to develop their business.

We have one side of the story at this point, remember this is business not friendship, don't confuse the two.

Those that do usually regret it.

At 400 units on order, DOC could probably have some good quality picks made to his specks overseas.

In this case it wouldn't be like he is abandoning one of his long time business partners.

Good point Chris, the Walco's were made overseas so what is the difference as long as the quality is the same?

Se la vi...I guess it's time for Doc to use his manufacturing might and produce his own pick!

Maybe it is best to be in charge of your own supply lines, good thought.

Twice the ability to sell products, twice the coverage, unless Doc didn't want to raise the price and Walco wants more $$.

Good speculation. Maybe - who knows?

Maybe Doc can shed some light on this specualtion.

Doc is a good businessman and will be just fine, if SHW has just been sitting on the 400 picks, received the cash and has been doing nothing - that is bad - as stated before it would be interesting to see what they have to say.

Just for a point of reference on neutrality (I'm trying to be fair in my post to all parties with not having a lot of factual first hand info in this particular situation - just what I've read).

I have never purchased one item from AZO so I can't make comment son their service but have put money in both Doc's and Rob's pockets and they have both done me right by it everytime. I recommend them both.

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Flakmagnet, appreciate your words of wisdom (as all should!). I have a full time job and don't even want to think about doing any full time "projects". I have and use the Hermit pick, but some of the places we go, a target will sound off under one of those diseased air-polluting bushes. I know I'm probably goin to hell any way, but with my idea of a pick, it's like they're beamed up Scotty! They're gone!

I think Walco made a mistake. Business is business; but don't screw with your loyal customers. At least fullfill your order.

Enough said-

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Shep Grubstake All you Gents,

The way Walco dealt with Doc; this is business?

I disagree completely.

Business at the level of Doc's kind of business, is personal.

Doc is not a faceless entity, he's a man we've hunted with, argued with, laughed with.

He has revealed himself to us not only as a businessman, but as a living being

doing the best he can in a small section of the world,

which happens to be a part of our world too.

I have trouble being able to say because it's business then it's to be expected that you can dump a loyal

distriubuter, but before you do, you can hold onto their money for weeks before you tell them

things have changed.

I don't know anything about AZO and Walco, I read Chris' account on their forum

where he says it was a business proposition presented to him spur of the moment

while he was in Oz. and he took it.

I have no reason not to believe him,

But with the information we have right now, Walco pulled something with Doc that wasn't on the level.

Doc's business shows that being distant and unresponsive doesn't have to be a 'the way it is'.

A business can have a human face on it,

a business can admit mistakes,

a business can be out in front when there is a problem.

Doc has done all these things.

When there was a development problem with the Pocket Rocket,

Doc didn't hide behind a business front,

he was out in front,

we got personal emails from him, he was the business

and he made things right even as he lost money.

and here's the weird part: IT IS NORMAL TO DO THAT!

But these days it stands out.

It is rare to be normal - to be honest in this business culture.

And yes, his honesty was repaid with many orders from us,

it is a good product

being represented by a good person who has a business.

If we don't put our foot down in these small ways when this kind of thing comes up,

how is anything going to change in this funny world of ours?

One thing is certain;

it damned sure doesn't have a reason to change if we accept the premise

that because it is a business, being dishonest is to be expected.

Walco may have a reason for what they did, but with the information we have right now,

I don't buy it as being a good reason, or an honest one.

Flak

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Hello Guys,

I just wanted to say I'm not pissed at anyone, just would like to know what happened. I know in business stuff like this happens, but it's always nice to know why. I have no problem with another dealer or distributor selling the Walco's, since I thought they were the best pick around in the past. However, I have change heart and a new pick will be coming out soon!

Anyone looking for a good prospecting pick, keep your eye out. ;)

Rob Allison

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Anytime someone think's they have the world in their pocket they are only fooling them self. I may want something but it's nothing I can't do without.Now I add another to the list!

You have people on this forum that make just as good picks so why not keep American money in America.

I'd say that Walco just shot them self in the foot.

That's the way it is one day you wake up and the honeymoon is over. I found out long ago that It's nothing that can't be replace with someone are something.

Rob & Doc I'd like to know when you get the new picks because I'd like to be the first to buy one American Made.

Chuck Anders

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Flac, I like the way you think...

Many sad and bad things have been done while hiding behind the mantra..It's Just Business...I believe the Mafia adopted that slogan...all interaction should be ethical regardless of the lucre involved! I am inclined to believe that Walco could/should have treated Doc with much more respect.

Fred

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I think this kind of topic is what these forums are for, if someone is making a business decision it is always best to give detailed explanation as to how someone arrived at that decision. This situation somehow is reminiscent of a girl who breaks up with a guy and then says it's due to careful consideration and then doesn't say what the reasoning is behind the decision. We can guess at the reason but it would be nice to hear the truth for a change! - "After careful consideration", consideration of what?!

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Hello Rex,

I would agree with you, it's nice to know why, or what happened. We probably won't know anything, but then again that just shows the character of the people that are running the show.

In my opinion, I think it would have been fair, or at least better business if Walco added another distributor rather than just cutting one out (DOC) and making another (AZO).

People tend to ask me tons of questions since I'm in like a triangle between my distributor and a relation.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Hello Rod,

I think you're right. Also, if you check out the forums, there is over 1,000 visits to these threads. I'm sure by the end of the week there will be a good 1,500. Considering many people are re-visiting the threads, I would guess there's a good 300-400 gold prospectors reading these posts. I would bet a very high percentage of them will never consider the Walco name again, unless something changes very soon.

I used to think Walco was the absolute best, but ....

Rob Allison

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Hello Rod,

Yep, Hermit Pick is a great product. I would have carried them in the past, but was partial to John Hodan with Hodan Pick and Walco out of Australia. I just didn't want to carry too many picks, so stuck with these manufactures and had great luck with them.

Don't worry, something is already in the making, something much better and maybe even a tad bit cheaper. It's hard for me to keep a secret, but I promised. :wacko:

Take care,

Rob Allison\

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Just so there is no misunderstanding, I have never had to front money to WALCO. So they had not been paid for the 400 picks I had on order. As soon as they deliver them to COILTEK, to be included with my next shipment, COILTEK pays them for me immdeiately. Then we consolidate the pciks with the coils and bring over about 2000 lbs of merchandise all at once. The more weight we have the cheaper the per KG rate becomes. It can range anywhere from $8.84 to $5.60 per kg depending upon whether it is a lot of weight or not. Then I wire transfer the funds to COILTEK.

As far as two sides to the story, well I quoted what WALCO had to say, They have always had pleasant dealings with me, etc. etc. I am at a loss to explain this. It can't be because I don't give them enough business, because never once, have they supplied all the picks I have ordered. They can't even keep up with the demand.

I order 300 picks, they send 200 and promise the rest will be forthcoming. However, I always end up ordering more before they get the 100. I'll say OK, well to those 100 you owe me, please add an additional 300. never once have they been able to deliver the quantity I've ordered.

Financially it's not a big thing, I don't make enough on picks that the decrease in annual revenue will do much to the bottom line. It's just the principle of the thing. I have a dealer network of around 30 dealers who depend on me to supply them with these products for their customers. Likw I said, I have spent a lot of money in advertising and promoting WALCO.

I know Joe makes the Hermit pick and we have been talking, however, I have never seen a hermit pick up close and personal. Joe is going to send me one. I have also had three other people come forward who say they can make picks to my specs. You also have to remember that Hoss Blackman and I designed and I still sell the Aussie Claim Jumper pick, which has always been a great pick with it's solid hickory handle.

So there are plenty of options available.

Rob's little story about suppliers. I sell the Protector Detector hat that I import from Australia. It's a rather unique beast that is all soft material and drapes down over the back of your neck. Well I have a dealership through one of the biggest hat companies in the U.S. Dorfman. This is where I get my embroidered ball caps, DOC's Detecting done, and also my original design Fatal Dog hats. These guys can make any hat you want, the prototypes are slower than snot. But once they get the prototype approved they kick rear. So anyway my rep was looking at the Prtector Detector Hat and said, "We can knock that off!" What are you talking about? "Our factories in China are experts at knocking stuff off." I told him I wasn't interested because my supplier in Australia has always been a great person to do business with and I wouldn't feel right doing that. He said, "Well let me take one, because I want to at least show you what their capabilities are in case you would ever want to design something to your specs, or whatever, I just want you to see what they can do because it isquite remarkable." Sure go ahead. Three weeks later he comes back with this "KNOCK OFF" I was astounded. I was sort of speechless. Minues the logos, you would not have been able to tell the knock off from the real hat. SAME material, SAME detailed stitching, SAME little leather tabs, it was actually sort of hillarious. I was wondering how many hours did they spend just sourcing the materials and putting this thing together to be an identical twin to the oriiginal? Here was the real corker. My cost for the knock off???? 20% of the cost of what I pay for the real deal. So let's say my cost was $20 on the original, my cost on this hat was $4. I don't see how the Chinese do it. Anyway I told my rep, that is amazing, however I don't work that way Fred, I have to be able to sleep at night.

Almost all of my business down in Australia is done on a handshake. My word is my bond, if your word is worthless well then no contract is going to make you keep your word. Australia is a long ways away, what am I going to do, sue someone? If WALCO were here in the U.S. I would take them to court to at the very least make them deliver the 400 picks I had on order. Also I would sue them for design rights as I am the one that designed the WALCO WOMBAT pick, gave them the idea and helped them with the design, hell i think I even came up with the name.

I've always been a very loyal person. I don't understand people that aren't. Rob should be able to tell you that. I have been bugged and bugged by a close friend who sells prospecting equipmnt but is in close proximity to Rob. This person wants to sell COILTEK coils. I'm sure he could do one heck of a job, however, Rob has always done a great job, and I just can't/won't put another dealer right on top of him in his area.

I'll tell you another story, not to bore you, but back in 1977 when I lived in Peoria Illinois I was just startingout oin my real business. I have a Ph.D. in Criminal Psychology, and I hav delveloped and published several different written tests. One is called the Phase II Profile. My tests are used around the world by over 800 customers. That is my REAL JOB. Anyway I had just got through with 2 1/2 years of developing and validating the Phase II Profile and I was ready to try to market it, but I had to get it printed. EASY you say? NOPE. The design involved a carbonless answer sheet packet that once the exminee had answered the questions, the administrator would tear it apart to disclose a very omplex scorin matrix, where the marks from the answers on the top sheet would be recorded. These had to be tallied and plugged into a formula. It was quite ingenious if I don't say so myself. So much so they I hold two patents on the design. Anyway, I hsd little to no money to get this thing produced. I wanted just 1000 to start with. Well I ran into two obstacles. No printer wanted to print 1000 of these complicated sheets with their intricate alingment, or if they did they wanted like $5 per sheet. That was $5000. Well I can't very well pay $5 for a test I was going to charge $7 for. Finally I went to a big big printing company called M&D in Henry Illinos. These guys printed books and stuff. M&D was owned by two brothers, Mody and Dick Finegeld. Moby an Dick looked at the project and I explained how it worked and the trouble I was having getting someone to print them. Dick said, "YEP that's the problem, we wouldn't print any less than 10,000 at about 50 cents each. I said that's still $5000. I can't afford that. Moby said, well how much money do you hae for this project? I said I'm ashamed to say. I have like $250. Dick laughed and said, "There's no way in hell kid! We'd like to help but there's nothing we can do."

So I drove 25 miles back to Peoria, I knew it was going to be a useless trip before I went, but I was sort of desperate.

When I got bck to my office in Peoria, 1 one room office in a old building that I paid $50 a month to rent. I got a phone call from Moby. "Hey kid, we'll do it." Do what? "We'll do your job!" But I can't afford $5000. "Yeah I know, we're going to print up 1000 sheets for $250, you said that's what you had to spend right?" Well yes but. how are you, ......I mean why, .......well first I want to thank you,,,,,,but you are a really big company how can you afford to just do ......" "Hey you want us to do them or not?" Absolutely! "Look I talked to my brother DICK, I told him 'Do you remember when we were starting out and didn't have a pot to piss in? And Dan Jamieson beleived in us and gave us that loan? We wouldn't have all of this Dick if it weren't for someone who believed in us. I beleive in this kid, let's help him out." So I got my bbrother to agree. "THANK YOU, thank you so much, you will not regret this."

So, I started sending tests out to companies. One company I sent test out to was Radio Shack. They tested the program with 200 tests. And 3 months later came bacik and ordered 10,000 tests at $4 each! $40,000 in one order, when my income for the previous year had been $19,000. I didn't even have 10,000 tests. I had about 600 tests left out of the initial 1000. I asked Moby how fast he could print them up. He said, "I got 14000 of them sitting on the shelf waiting for you!" WHAT? hey kid, I beleived in you, I believed in your enthusiasm. And it's as easy to print 15000 of them as it is 1000.

So the rest is sort of history. My business grew and grew and grew, and I got to the point where I didn't order 1000 tests at a time. I ordered 100,000 tests at a time.

In 1983 I moved to Las Vegas. I had every printer in Las Vegas knocking on my door, because you have no problem finding printers when you are printing 100,000 of something at a time. The prices were great, and after all, it didn't make sense to have tests printed in henry illinois and have them shipped clear across the damn country to Las Vegas and have to pay all of that shipping cost, when I could get my test printed right here in Las Vegas. I mean in was simply a matter of good business, and dollars. No sense in throwing money away in chipping costs, that is just stupid.

WELL my dear friends, DOC is stupid and DOC is also loyal. Because despite the fact that I could have saved money printing locally. I owed a debt of allegiance to the two men who believed in me when no one else dd. So here AND NOW IN 2007 SOME 30 years later, where do you think I get my tests printed? M&D printing in Henry Illinois, that's where. It costs me a little more, but what is loyalty worth anyway? Where would I be today if not for the kindness of Dick and Moby?

Thanks to all of you for your kind words!

DOC

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Hello Doc,

Thanks for the reply back. I know many were hoping you would post some details.

I know you have no worries Doc, but it will effect the others integrity big time!

P.S. Hope you can have something designed similar to the W3 design. I really like that pick.

Rob Allison

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