Detector lessons costing money? Good read

[nuggethunting]

Hello All,

Been out in the field this weekend doing my "free" lessons for customers that have purchased from me. Not sure how this all started, but I was directed to another forum where I guess this is a big issue (or something to gossip about).

Just to clarify, because I'm not sure who the Arizona dealers are exactly, but we here at Rob's Detector Sales don't charge for instructions for anyone that has purchased from us. We have done this since day one, always been part of our service, free instructions, shipping & insurance and bundle packages!

There will always be one guy wanting to take something and run with it, probably not knowing all the information first hand. Rumors are great for dealers wanting to cause wars between them.

I do charge now for detecting lessons (beyond customer purchases) due to the demand and customers wanting them. For years I never charged for "non-customer" detector lessons, but the customers themselves would say I'm silly. They said you're spending "all day" with me and not making a nickel.

All I can say, is there is a huge demand for customers wanting lessons, some private and have no problem paying. I charge $299 for an entire day of detecting and you can use my detectors (Fisher & Minelab), including the Minelab GPX 5000 and my equipment (coils, picks, scoops, headphones, magnet and more). I have to maintain and repair the equipment being used and some people are much harder on others equipment then their own.

For $299 you get a full day of instructions, get to use various top of the line metal detectors and equipment, plus keep all the gold you find from private gold claims. I think this is an awesome opportunity for anyone wanting to know if this is what they want to do as a hobby. Well I know it's an awesome opportunity due to the high demand of customers wanting them and not one has questioned the price.

Rob's Detectors Sales has been awarded the last two years "Minelab Customer Care Award," besides maintaining a A+ rating with the BBB. I don't think there is, or ever has been an issue with us and customer service.

By the way, how many dealers do you know that have personally delivered metal detectors and gear to customers and showed them that evening how to use them? Ya, didn't think so, but we do it all the time.

Personally I just think this is a plow to say, "hey we don't charge for instructions and we can't believe others do, so let me take you out and sell you a detector!"

Ok, I shouldn't have gotten on this, but I did.

P.S. Would love to hear your comments about this though, good or bad.

Your friendly dealer,

[way2cool]

Hi Rob,

Yea I saw that last night. Your customer service and awards say it all. Pm Sent also.

[beepinpete_WA]

Sounds like a great deal there Rob, i'm sure your customers are very happy with your level of service and personal integrity.

In Oz we dont have any dealers who offer what you offer with a purchase, all we get is a Minelab provided training day for GPX

Purchasers and i can tell you mate that some of the trainers leave much to be desired, some even going as far as talking down

the 5000 and telling customers that they would have been better off to buy a 2200 WTF.

Keep up the good work Rob

Pete

[oldies1955]

Well, I for one can vouch for Robs customer service...more than once.

He delivered my detector to my house and on another occasion drove all the way to Rich hill to deliver a coil......ok, you were going up there anyway BUT....you did find me out there and give it to me

As for charging for detecting.....I get the same thing with my side business of plating. What, you cant just dip it? How come so much.

People dont realize whats involved with either scenerio. Rob probably burns 30 bucks in gas driving up to RH alone.

Just keep doing what your doing...your doing fine

Tom H.

[nuggethunting]

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the kind words. I have to agree with you, if you offer a service then you should be able to charge for it. The flip side, if you offer a service for free after a purchase, you should also stick to that.

I spend much more than $30 per outing. On my outings with customers, I'm always bringing extra items like scoops, that I end up giving away. Every scoop is about $6. I've even given out Super Magnets for the guys that didn't have them. I also load my cooler up with ice, water and sodas and some snacks that I offer to the customers. When you realistically sit back and add up all the expenses and wear/tear, I'm looking at $150 per weekend, not including if someone breaks or damages the equipment.

Last outing I gave every customer a new style Minelab baseball cap. Have you looked at the price of the new Minelab hats? I'm not getting these for free.

I think I go way overboard for all my customers and never had one complain.

I've always lived and believed that you should "treat others like you would like to be treated."

[shep]

I was gonna stay out of this conversation, cause I buy from all the main 3 in AZ, and have nothing but great experiences w/ those purchases. I can see all sides and the point made on another forum, if a company sells a $6K, ought to be a free instruction if needed. I haven't boughten a new machine that I needed training on in a long time, but you helped my brother out w/ his 5000 and he was happy, so I'm happy. (I was the one who had to get him over a nugget tho ;-) )

Thanks, Shep

[monsterguppy]

I ordered a machine and a coil and you followed up each time by phone, Rob your service has been great! (Still need to hook up with you for my class when work permits),.

I,ve had the prospecting bug for a year and a half now, got my first detector from an online retailer not knowing any better and figuring how hard could it be? Well if your like me not knowing anything, the equipment sellers will have a field day with your wallet

Ordered my 2nd detector from you knowing I can always post hear, call or e-mail and I will get an answerer from someone who uses the equiment -thats a great service.

I finally did learn how to setup and swing my first detector but it took a year for me to figure it out between reading forums and you-tube videos.

Paying for a class from someone would have saved me a lot of second guessing myself and time, but im pig-headed that way and really had no idea classe's even existed lol.

[one4gold]

Thank you Rob for all of your help, knowledge and friendship. Talk to you soon, Ralph Lowrey

[FlakMagnet]

Hi Rob,

I am another person who has made purchases from all three of the main dealers in the Southwest.

I think your service is first rate and you know that because I have said it many times both here and on other forums.

I do not have a problem with a dealer charging for detailed and more extensive lessons,

but there are guys around who are not dealers who are charging for lessons.

My comments on Bills forum went to that.

I would expect a dealer not to charge me for some basic instructions if it was my first detector and I was inexperienced

but if a person has experience and wants a level of instruction that goes beyond the basics

that is something one should be willing to pay for.

My two cents...

Anyway best wishes and keep up the good work.

Flak

[nvradar]

I have not purchased anything from Rob's detectors ...YET. I did however buy from Doc. A gold screamer setup and it failed on an outing. I contacted Doc and had a new one in just a few days!!! GREATLY APPRECIATED to find fellas that stand behind what they sell! So I have NO questions about Rob being of the same character... birds of a feather... NVRADAR

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi Rob,

I do not see how buying something entitles anyone to free anything. We all in life negotiate purchases. Whatever is offered as part of a sale is part of a sale. If dealer A offers free instruction with a detector purchase and dealer B does not, make your choice with your wallet. But dealer B, if you do choose for whatever reason to buy from that individual, does not owe you free instruction unless it was offered as part of the deal.

Instructions in store on the clock is one thing. Instructions after hours off the clock? Really? I can just imagine buying a car, then going back the next day and telling the salesman I want free driving lessons from him on the weekend. I did spend thousands of dollars after all. I am pretty sure the salesman has no life, and no bills to pay, and surely does not mind offering their time for free. Just because it was not offered as part of the sale should make no difference. I think he owes me free gas for a month also.

I have no problem with people charging for anything. They offer a service, I can choose to take advantage of that service or take a pass on it. There is indeed a market for people wanting detector classes. It is a good thing people exist that offer to fill that market. Better that then people wanting a service, and nobody offering it.

I think it is great Rob that you offer free classes to people who buy a detector from you. They are of course paying for the class as part of the sale. Frankly, it is more than I ever did in 37 years of being one of the largest detector retailers in the country. All I ever did as a dealer was sell detectors. I did on occasion offer classes on the side, on my own time, and you bet I charged for them. My time is extremely valuable. To me anyway. Anyone that thinks my time is worth nothing is not getting a piece of it! The money from the detector sale went to the company and sure never gave anyone a claim to my personal free time.

I think you have a responsibility to your family to charge people who did not buy from you for classes. I can just see trying to explain to my wife why I have to not be with her for a weekend because I have to spend it helping people for free.

There is Rob the business and Rob the person. When I buy from Rob the business I get whatever I negotiate at the time of purchase. But that gives me no right to the free time of Rob the person.

Blah, blah, blah you asked for opinions and I can run on. Bottom line is you offer superb service Rob as evidenced by your loyal customers. There will always be people who want something for nothing. Pay them no mind.

All I know is if I wanted Rob Allison to take me out for personal metal detecting instructions I would consider $299 a bargain. And you are actually going to give me a shot at gold I can keep? That's awesome!

Steve Herschbach

[frank c]

I think you have a damm good perspective on this matter Steve.

[trinityau]

Hey Rob, I too offer classes with a five hour minimum. I do not really teach people how to run their units, I am more into giving prospecting lessons. I have found that there is a big demand for what I offer. At first I thought maybe I was a bit high with prices but after taking many people out for a day and then having them return for another day I started to get a feeling that people are satisfied while out with me. I have had many people tell me that I put out too much information to remember. I usually let the customer tell me their weak spots or specific areas of interest to them. I stick to detecting primarily and go around to many locations in a day to show the various geological setups where gold can oocur. I show how the old timers worked different ground, where they started, where they stopped. I give techniques of hunting various ground and show the use of VLF's verse PI's and why. I give a short geology class throughout the day that is very simple without any book references. I cover a lot of issues and like I said it seems that people are very happy to go out and learn.

I had one guy tell me he wanted to learn how to flyfish awhile back so he set up a daytrip with a flyfishing guide and hit the river. He was able to learn more in that day than what he was able to gleen from books. He paid for this service. People go out golfing and get instruction from Pro golfers, I think it is a good analogy. While many people may say no, I am not paying anyone, many others do. It is up to the individual and what they learned at the end of the day. Like I stated earlier, I have many return customers and not all are complete newbies so this tells me there is an urge to learn our hobby.

Again, the store looks great Rob. You do a service giving classes to your customers who buy from you but I would not be afraid to offer assistance or training at a higher level to non customers for a price either. Thanks, TRINITYAU/RAYMILLS

[Steve Herschbach]

That's great Ray - people are lucky to be able to have access to your knowledge.

I did some classes and they were great for all involved but as you and Rob know they are also work. I suffered a bit from performance anxiety. I felt like if a person was paying me then by God I had better put some gold in their pocket. Of course finding gold is never a given and although I knew they were not paying for the gold per se I did feel bad if I could not get them into something decent.

Then we got Moore Creek going and that was the ultimate put gold in people's pockets thing. It did cost you, but man I sure did light some people up big time while it lasted. Nothing like seeing somebody dig that big gold nugget for the first time. Or the whole camp lighting up when that really big nugget got found. I do miss the good times and the good people that visited us there. it was one of the best gigs in my life.

Steve Herschbach

[Gravelwasher]

You all hit it on the head already. Nothing wrong with a fair price for excellent service. Rob has always done good and I have not even bought anything from him, gave me some great advice on picking out a used detector and helped me with all my questions about Minelabs via email, Thanks again Rob!!! Gravelwasher

[fredm]

Steve, as always has a balanced point of view. Buyers should get what they pay for and dealers should do as they agree.

I think it is fine to give help for free and I think it is fine to offer lessons for a fee.

I often haved assisted folks in the field when I see them struggling to even get their Minelabs mounted and running-for free, every time;but, I am not a dealer.

I won't spend all day "helping". Almost everything I learned was by reading, practicing and doing...however, there have been some good folks along the way that gave me a pointer, reminder or swift kick...

I do think people will pay more attention and try harder when their money is on the barrel...

fred

[nuggethunting]

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all your great comments. I agree, if you advertise or promise a service with a sale, then you need to stick with it. We have always offered field instructions with detectors purchases and have honored them when the customer was willing to travel to Arizona or at least schedule them if they were local. I'm not going to bang down the customers door. They know at the time of purchase they can schedule them. Many don't need them, many don't take me up on them due to the distance they might have to travel.

For someone to say all the dealers are stupid for charging, and we don't, it's just a ploy to get some customers to get free instructions while they push a GPX 5000 or some other detector or accessory down their throat. I wasn't born yesterday, I knew exactly what the motive was when I heard about it.

Anyones service is worth something. If you spent every weekend training and doing courses for free, you would get burned out very quickly.

Like I mentioned, I haven't had one customer unsatisfied, so it must say something. No one is walking away thinking they got ripped off, so why would another dealer think that?

I can only speak for what I do and the service I give, not anyone else out there.

Just my thoughts,

Rob Allison

[IDdesertman]

Steve H. hit the nail on the head. Your the man Rob... You've got a good reputation and happy customers, so keep doing what your doing!

Matt

[ARGONAUTE]

Rob you are also excellent service for all the detecting arccessories, even half the world away! So thanks Rob.

Some of us are not as lucky as your customers to get the level of training we see. Absolutely top rate training, often with the buzz of finding a decent nugget. Very much worth it in my opinion.

[DOC]

I think there is a misconception about the field training Rob gives with a detector sale.

IT AIN'T FREE! Yes, true there is no charge to the customer, but there is a definite cost to the dealer. We dealers pay for gas to go out for the day, the instruction takes us away from the business for a day. And it's not that we lose sales if we are away, it's that we do have to make up that time. I average 53 phone calls a day! 53! I try to return each and everyone before the day ends. When I take a customer out into the field, no one returns those phone calls, so the next day I have 106 phone calls to return.

I have a local guy who has called me no less than 6 times in the last 6 months, because he wants to come over and buy a gold pan and a snuffer bottle. (He lives 2 blocks away!) That's all, a gold pan and a snuffer bottle. Each and every time he has talked for over 35 minutes about EVERYTHING! The Illuminati, the Trilateral Commission, Area 51. I try to be nice, I think he is lonely and just wants to talk, but I don't know how to disengage after I have said at least 5 time, "Listen I am so sorry I can't talk with you any longer I have a lot of other customers who are waiting for me to return their call." "OK Doc sure I understand, but can I ask you one more question?" Try to get through 53 calls in a day when you get caught on a couple of those marathon calls.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that while there is NO COST to the buyer for the training dealers provide, I don't want people to think the training is FREE or of no value. Being trained properly with your metal detector is the best way to assure you have success and it is invaluable. Dealers who offer this service view it as an investment in great customer service, and the investment we are willing to make to send a well trained customer into the field. We know that a well trained customer is our best advertising, and the best guarantee we have that we will get repeat business and referrals.

So when you do buy a detector, look for a dealer, like Rob, who is not just selling you a detector, he is offering you a life long relationship. That means at anytime you can call Rob for advice, problems etc.

By the way, a lot of the calls I get each day are from customers who got a cut rate deal on a Minelab from some dealer who did not offer training. Now they are calling me because they have no idea what they are doing wrong and why they can't find any gold. And low and behold, the dealer who was willing to talk to them when he was trying to sell a machine, won't return the customer's phone call. So I take the time, talk to this "orphan" help them in what ever way I can, and send them my tip sheet on setting up the GPX5000. I invest my time now, for a couple of reasons. Of course I want to cultivate a future customer, but I also want this person to be as excited as I am about this hobby. I want them to have a good experience because that is good for our hobby as a whole. Trust me, we need to have as many folks as interested in what we do as possible. Because some day, when they take all of our guns, our metal detectors will be next.

So many time I have potential customers say, "Well I can get one of those GPX5000's from X dealer for $300 less." I ask them, Is the dealer going to offer you field training? No he said that the machine is easy to operate, and it has a factory preset mode, and you can just turn it on and go detecting. Oh, I see, so this other dealers price is $300 less? Yes that's right? OK and did he tell you how much it is going to cost you? Yes I told you $300 less than your price. I'm sorry I know the price but what I am talking about is the COST. There is a big difference between PRICE and COST.

The PRICE of an item or service is your out of pocket investment you make at the time you decide to make a purchase. So the price you are saying the other dealer is asking is $300 less than my price of $5,795. So now lets talk about the cost of this GPX5000. The COST is the ongoing benefit or deficit you will realize over the life of owning your investment. The other dealer does not offer field training, I offer field training. So let's assume you are going to buy the detector from the other dealer. The first time out you are really not too confident you are running the detector with the optimum settings because you are running in factory preset. Unbeknownst to you, you walk right over a 2 ounce nugget and never hear it because, well, you didn't get any training. So let's see you paid $5495, and with no training you just missed a 2 ounce nugget so that was a $3,400 mistake, so while your PRICE was $5,495, your COST is now the PRICE of the detector, $5495, plus $3400 in missed gold, so your cost is $8,495.

Let's say you invest in a GPX5000 from me, you get the proper training, you know what to look for and where to look. You know how to adjust the detector for optimum performance, because you have learned about mineralization, and ground balance, and hot rocks, and some basic geology. So now when you walk over that 2 ounce nugget you get a faint repeatable signal, but you know that because it is repeatable, you need to take a little dirt off the top. You learned from me, that even a couple of inches of dirt can improve a target sound significantly, and when that happens that is a good sign. So you continue to dig and you score a beautiful 2 ounce nugget. So your while your PRICE to buy a detector from me was $300 higher, your COST is the Price of the detector $5,795, less your $3400 nugget, so your COST of the detector is now, $5,795 less $3400 or $2395.

So given the scenario I just laid out, your COST of buying that detector from Mr. Discount Dealer was $8495, and your COST of buying from me is $2395, that is $6,195 less. So just so I am clear on this, are you interested in the PRICE of the detector or the COST?

I don't think some customers really look at their investment in this light.

Doc

[fredm]

well Doc...thinking requires, well a brain...

oh, that is harsh...

what I mean is thoughtful decisions require considering all factors not just the immediate cash price...

fred

[Reno Chris]

Doc - I didn't know you were such an expert on all things conspiratorial. Next time I have a few hours of questions on area 51, space aliens, the Kennedy assassination and other related topics, I will be sure to call.

I have people ask me for training sometimes (which I do not do). I normally ask some questions about what they are wanting to know, and most of the time after talking it over what they want to know is not how to actually operate their detector and what knob to turn when, instead what they really want to know is about how to find gold. Of course you have to know how to operate your detector to find gold, but I always tell people that its much more difficult to actually find near surface nuggets than it is to learn how to operate your detector. Still, most new prospectors who are not finding gold just assume that they are not operating their detector properly. I ask if they are finding little bits of lead like bird shot or bullet fragments. If they say yes (which they mostly do) the problem is probably not proper detector operation, but the need to know more about the art of finding nuggets. While you can learn about the adjustments of even a moderately complex detector like a GPX 5000 in a day or by watching a video, learning the art of finding gold takes time and is a skill learned over a long period of time. You can read books (like mine) or watch videos and get training - all of which are good - but learning to find gold takes time, practice and work in the field. There are no magic shortcuts.

[FlakMagnet]

"... There are no magic shortcuts..."

Dang!

[JIM MCCULLOCH]

"SUCCESS" comes before "WORK" only in the dictionary. After 32 years and thousands of nuggets, I fully admit that I am still learning. And still willing to learn. HH Jim

[DOC]

I absolutely agree with everything you said and that is why

#1. Everyone who buys a detector from me gets your book.

#2. First thing I try to introduce them to, after proper adjustment of the machine, is where to look. I always say gold is like finding a needle in a haystack, but there are some haystacks that are more likely to have the needle than others, and if I can teach you what those haystacks look like, you may find those needs easier. and

#3. I need another case of your books!

Doc

Doc - I didn't know you were such an expert on all things conspiratorial. Next time I have a few hours of questions on area 51, space aliens, the Kennedy assassination and other related topics, I will be sure to call.

I have people ask me for training sometimes (which I do not do). I normally ask some questions about what they are wanting to know, and most of the time after talking it over what they want to know is not how to actually operate their detector and what knob to turn when, instead what they really want to know is about how to find gold. Of course you have to know how to operate your detector to find gold, but I always tell people that its much more difficult to actually find near surface nuggets than it is to learn how to operate your detector. Still, most new prospectors who are not finding gold just assume that they are not operating their detector properly. I ask if they are finding little bits of lead like bird shot or bullet fragments. If they say yes (which they mostly do) the problem is probably not proper detector operation, but the need to know more about the art of finding nuggets. While you can learn about the adjustments of even a moderately complex detector like a GPX 5000 in a day or by watching a video, learning the art of finding gold takes time and is a skill learned over a long period of time. You can read books (like mine) or watch videos and get training - all of which are good - but learning to find gold takes time, practice and work in the field. There are no magic shortcuts.