New Whites PI

[Reg]

Hi Montana,

If you have read my posts, I have indicated that based upon what others have said, ML has solved many of the problems in the release of the 4000 that have been an issue on previous models and this is an improvement. I have also mentioned that I was impressed with the sensitivity of the 3500.

Now, just for the record, I am not trying to knock the ML's which seems to be the consensus. I have just pointed out some of the more common complaints that do not show up on other PI's. The main issue is noise, whether it come from unknown origins or power lines. The fact is, other PI's and I would expect the new Whites will have far less problems with such noise.

As for the sensitivty or depth capability of the 4000, I am sure you are correct. Depth capabilities have never been an issue with the Minelabs and I have stated that on multiple occasions . For someone who has about $4000 to spend and wants a new detector and who feels they will use it enough to justify it, I would agree that is the way to go, especially if absolute depth is the major issue.

However, I believe even you will agree it is hard to justify such an expense if a person is only going to hunt a couple times a year or is on a very limited budget. I know I wouldn't and didn't. For people like you who hunt all the time, it is a different matter. It makes sense to have the deepest seeking unit possible. For others, it is a different situation.

Now, I for one, hunt with a low power unit. It doesn't have the depth capability of the 4000 on many sizes of gold, but does very well on the small stuff which is by far the most common found now. So, I am happy with my choice. Also, I have been quite successful with the unit and have found gold on most of my week long trips to AZ.

Now, I point this out because there are a lot of people who can't afford or justify the "best" but still want to use a PI and would prefer to buy new. Now, I would expect the new Whites unit to be lower priced and fit a nitch that is needed. No, it will not be the most "powerful" or have the greatest depth, but it won't have the largest price tag either. Such a detector will also have its own advantages and some of those are what I am pointing out.

I strongly suspect that if the Whites unit is successful, ML will ultimately counter which will cause action on the part of Whites, and the circle will begin. When this happens, the consumer will be the winner. Now, I do not see anything wrong with that.

Now, one final note, I certainly believe that I could justify buying a unit that cost 1/3 to 1/2 less of the "best" if I got 80 to 90% of the depth of the "best" and maybe equal in depth on some smaller sizes, especially if it also had some advantages of its own. Again, this only my opinion.

Reg

[montana]

Reg . I agree with your assesment . I forget that not all detectorists are as obsessed as I am about detecting. Heck , I see nothing wrong with detecting in the 110 degree heat until my legs start to buckle and then go out and do it again the next day. I also see nothing wrong with getting up at 3 AM to get an early start 3 or 4 days a week. Everyone else thinks I'm crazy though. Yes indeed a cheap PI with decent performance should be able to find a niche in the market. I'll be on social security soon and I will most likely think twice about popping 5 grand every few years for the newest, bestest, deepest detector out there. I would trade my GPX4000 tomorrow for a detector that would get every nugget over a grain in the top foot of ground that I put my detector over even if it wouldn't go deeper than a foot no matter how big the nugget was, since at least 90% of the gold I've found has been at less than a foot. I wouldn't even worry about the few large deep ones, in fact I don't worry about them now or I would be running 20" coils all the time instead of a 14" elip. coil which I feel is the best coil for small gold down to a foot or a little more. Even at Rich Hill I'm sure that from the time of discovery most of the placer gold recovered was taken in the top foot including most of the largest nuggets. A whole summer of pushing with a dozer in the Devils nest hasn't turned up a fraction of the gold that was taken in the first few months after the discovery with pick and shovel. desert placer gold is usually shallow. heck you can see the bedrock sticking up all over on most desert goldfeilds. The gold is either shallow or way beyond any detectors reach in huge washes where the bedrock is even beyond a bulldozers reasonable capabilities. Now you and Chris stop squabbling and have a great day.----Bob

[wyndham]

Coming from a different POV(I ani't got no PI) and trying to learn as I go I saw a video on youtube the other day on some beeping with a ML in OZ.

The bal was turned up to a background threshold sound that when moved over the target warbled to a sqeul. The target was maybe a BB sisize nugget about 8" or so deep. Several targets were retrived this way.

All the words don't tell as much as a video , in the field, with a person who knows what's what.

Is this the only way to use a ML, I'm sure each has there own "Touch" but to "SEE" how the target responds in worth it's weight in potato chips.

Here's the interesting part to me, those that read this post will put themselves into that video and there technique into this description and if you see the video will more than likely say"I do it differently", which is to say we all have our own set of words about ground noise, em interference, etc. to make our search productive.

After seeing the video, I'll expect to have the response I saw and that might be the wrong method. I might miss mult targets trying to create what I heard.

So we are comparing differnt machines in different places, expecting our own set of responses and having diffent experience levels to throw in as well.

Now I'll buy a PI machine one day and learn as all the rest have but there's very little objective data to understand such a subjective field, so what's new

Wyndham

[RTP]

I knew that when Greg posted that date he was being optomistic. As with any new product, when things seem to be going just fine, all of a sudden something unexpected pops up. So I'm going to hedge that a bit further and say "sometime this fall". We wanted to get it out sooner but different things have delayed it. Not the least is that "we prospectors" are holding firm against the marketing people. We are insisting that it has to be right, from the circuitry down to the ergonomics. Everything has to work in as many situations as we can conjure up. I'm actually taking it out this afternoon for some more testing in serpentine ground mixed with red hemetite. Hang tough, guys, it's coming!

Digger Bob

Bob,

How did the test turn out in the serpentine ground mixed with red hemetite?

[Digger Bob]

Bob,

How did the test turn out in the serpentine ground mixed with red hemetite?

Sorry, guys. I've been asked not to say any more at this time. I really wish I could. More testing coming up this weekend with different soil, trash, and loops. That's about all I can say right now. This thread took on a life of it's own and kind of got off track. As much as it is killing me not to talk about it, I just can't on an open forum like this.

Digger Bob

[RTP]

Thanks Bob. We will just have to wait for it's release.

[nuggethunting]

Hello Digger Bob,

Thanks for at least keeping us somewhat updated. I'm not going to worry about it much, I think it's going to be pretty hard for any manufacture to match the GPX-4000. I'm always hoping to see something new, but "seeing is believing."

Take care,

Rob Allison

[fredm]

Hi Rob and all...just for the record my name is FRED MASON not that guy that bought a gs5....

I bought a prototype detector with several Quality Control issues that should have been caught at the factory, the same with the adaptor, the battery was @ $300 and that was a bit steep...NO matter what Mr. Bill or anyone says or thinks I gave that machine a very fair try...the QC issues were only addressed after Reg was kind enough to test the machine and voice his concerns to the maker...even after it was returned the other issues such as sensitivity and ergonomics were not to going to change....

My mistakes were simple:

The detector arrived too late for any serious field test and practice...

I did not take a proven back-up detector

I should of bought a spare battery

I bought an untested, unproved detector to take on an expedition far from home...

In other words I did all the wrongs things...just right.

I am more than willing to accept my part in this affair but please don't try to make me responsible for the faults that were allowed to slip by at the factory...

By the way Reg, do you turn your detector off and on all day long? If the detector was on I was hunting for gold and it would be very difficult to get a signal with the GS5 off!!!

my gs5 is an old story and I am glad to be rid of it!

Fred Mason

[Reg]

Hi Fred,

I apologize if you took my posts personally. I thought I had explained your issue quite clearly. The point I did make was as a result of your trip and the battery issue, an external charger was made available. This solved the problem of being able to charge the battery out of the unit. I personally do not remember one being available prior to that time.

I know I made a simple external charger for another owner, but that was later and after your incident.

To be honest, I doubt I would have put much thought into the battery life since it was such a new detector.

I agree, things like the adapter were a real problem. Again, that issue has been taken care of. I know yours didn't work correctly and it wasn't your fault.

Now, on the other side of the coin, it is extremely difficult to find a good quality dual coax cable that can be used for coil lead or adapters. When Eric found the green cable that was used on your adapter, he tried it and found it seemed to work fine. He even sent me a sample and I tried to find some over here to buy since my initial testing indicated it would work fine. Just looking at the cable, it looked like it was going to be extremely reliable. It had a nice thick outer covering that I thought should more than protect the inner coaxes. Fortunately, I wasn't able to find any.

The reason I say fortunately is because the cable is quite expensive, but more importantly, it can't take extensive flexing. So, over a period of time, the cable will break. Apparently, some of the time, it didn't take that much flexing either. This wasn't known at the time it was being used, so some adapters and coils went out that were using the cable. You were one of the few people who got caught up in this one also. Once again, this issue has been taken care of.

As for the ergonomics, I am assuming you do not like the chest mount setup. Personally, I am not a fan of it either and if I owned a GS 5 I would mount it on the shaft like Scott Hughey did. I do know some people like the chest mount, so this is more of a personal issue.

You indicated you weren't happy with the initial sensitivity. When I tested another persons GS 5, I felt the same and recommended a change. Not only was my recommendation used, but other changes have been done in this area. So, the detector has seen improvements along those lines.

In answer to your question about whether I turn my detector off and on all day long, the answer is yes. I use a li Ion battery that doesn't have the current capability of the larger heavier NiMh type Eric uses so if I stop for any reason that is going to last even for a few minutes I will turn the detector off. I have found I can almost double my run time doing this. On my low powered PI's, I used to use 10 AA NiMh's, but switched to the Li Ion types because they were lighter.

I used to smoke and I would take a break to do so. When I did, I would turn the unit off. The same goes for when I take a short break just to rest. If I am going to stop and talk to someone, I turn my unit off if for no other reason than to minimize interference. Obviously, if I stop for lunch, I turn it off.

Like you, I do not turn my detector off while I am hunting.

One final note, I don't think anyone was really trying to point a finger at you and say you were responsible for things beyond your control. You were correct, the detector did have some issues at the onset, but they have been taken care as far as I know. I wasn't trying to blame you when I mentioned the battery and how to extend the run time. My explanation is actually what I do and it was just passing along my technique for people to think about today. What I do by turning off the unit when the coil isn't swinging over the ground will allow any detector to have a longer run time.

Reg

[fredm]

No worries, Reg....I have learned much from your posts and your previous articles in LT...I have the greatest respect for you and your unending willingness to share your vast knowledge....I have had many detectors and many cars some I liked, some I loved and some should have been burned (in my opinion)....I have moved on to new horizons....

Fred

[Mr. Bill]

Hi Fred

Please, no disrespect meant by me to you. My apologies to you if so.

Just to clear up a couple of mis-statements or misunderstandings.

The battery cost to you, and it was to all that purchased them, was $179. not $300. as you stated. There still today $179.

You may have received an early model to start with but regardless of how you feel it was not a prototype. We did all the changes you requested. The last time I had your GS5, unknown to you, I exchanged it for the latest GS5B at the time. I sent this to Reg to field test. They were no further modifications needed, and contrary to spoken beliefs, the later one's have not been changed in this area. This is why Reg sent your unit directly to you. Had they been any problems with it, it would have come back to me.

There was never a problem with the cable in the adapters. The problem with the failures was because the connector had been twisted so hard when being tighten, the mount was broken, allowing the adapter to rotate within it's self, snapping off the connectors inside. You broke 5 adapters, 3 on the GS5, 2 on the Goldquest, all with the same problem. I haven't ever had any other adapters returned for failures. Yes, do to your problems with the adapters, we stopped using them to avoid any future problems no mater how or who created them. This was failure from abuse, accidental or otherwise.

Both of your units, the GS5, and the Goldquest are still in use today. I have not learned of the problems from those users that your mentioning. There happy with their purchases. Both have been successful nugget hunting with them.

Fred, I never mentioned I thought you never gave it a fair chance. Not everything goes as planed, and I understand we see things in a different view. Who am I to say what you did or did not do. I wasn't there, I can't say.

It’s very doubtful your going to accept what I’m saying, and I can understand that, but you brought me in on this conversation. I was mentioning about Whites new unit, and the Goldscan 5 in general.

Mr. Bill

Hi Rob and all...just for the record my name is FRED MASON not that guy that bought a gs5....

I bought a prototype detector with several Quality Control issues that should have been caught at the factory, the same with the adaptor, the battery was @ $300 and that was a bit steep...NO matter what Mr. Bill or anyone says or thinks I gave that machine a very fair try...the QC issues were only addressed after Reg was kind enough to test the machine and voice his concerns to the maker...even after it was returned the other issues such as sensitivity and ergonomics were not to going to change....

My mistakes were simple:

The detector arrived too late for any serious field test and practice...

I did not take a proven back-up detector

I should of bought a spare battery

I bought an untested, unproved detector to take on an expedition far from home...

In other words I did all the wrongs things...just right.

I am more than willing to accept my part in this affair but please don't try to make me responsible for the faults that were allowed to slip by at the factory...

By the way Reg, do you turn your detector off and on all day long? If the detector was on I was hunting for gold and it would be very difficult to get a signal with the GS5 off!!!

my gs5 is an old story and I am glad to be rid of it!

Fred Mason

[Reg]

Hi Bill,

What is the after burner modification on the GS 5 they are talking about on one of the OZ forums? If you get a chance, please drop me an email with a little info if you have time.

Here is what is being said about it; "Apparently has a smoother threshold and far more depth than previous models and gives any Minelab a run for its money. Come and hear details on the 'afterburner' mod available very soon."

Reg

[nuggethunting]

Hello Fred,

I know who you are and your full name, just didn't want to use names on the forum. If I knew it was ok, I would have used your name.

In my honest opinion, I think there was a lot of hype about the GS5 before you purchased the detector. Kind of like the hype about the Garrett Infinium. Not that both detectors are not good detectors, but don't met the hype in my eyes. I could probably say this also about Minelab. Even though Minelab detectors get more depth than any other handheld detector that is similar, they don't get some of the exhagurated depths I've seen posted on the forums.

What I tell all people before they purchase any detector is, "Research on the forums what detectors are finding the most gold." It's very clear that the majority of the users in the US and OZ are using Minelab Pulse Induction metal detectors for gold nugget hunting.

Conclusion: Over the last 10 years, I've heard all the stories, rumors and hype about new gold detectors soon to hit the market. Out of about 20 that were rumored to come out, I've seen about 2 that actually amounted to something. What about the Super Detector from Germany .... What about the Titan .... Many are still waiting.

Take care,

Rob Allison

[Reg]

Hi Rob,

Maybe you can enlighten me about the "hype" you heard about the GS 5 before Fred purchased his unit? I didn't hear anything at all except it handled the ground quite well and that is a fact. There wasn't enough of them out there being tested for anyone to hype it as far as I know. In fact, the only GS 5 I know of was being tested by Bill Southern and what I remember was he didn't hype it.

The original unit was built using some conservative design techniques to assure there was minimal noise problems. As a result, the original sensitivity on the typical size gold we find here in the us was not as good as the best ML GP out at the time. So, for about half the money when it came out, you would get a unit that got about 80% depth on our size gold, and you got a detector that didn't hear aircraft or other strange sources and simply ignored power lines or other similar problem situations for other PI's.

I personally didn't try one for a while and then a guy sent one to me to check out. The unit I initially tried worked smoothly, was extremely quiet, and the ground balance worked fantastic. The down side was the unit didn't have the depth I felt it should. So, I made a quick mod and tested it. The mod was very simple, but it helped a lot. That mod was adapted in future units

Now, it is my understanding the GS 5 has gone through a series of other small mods over the last two years and each has provided some increase in depth or reducing noise since its introduction. I would like to also add that most of these mods have been done to most of the GS 5's sold at no cost to the owner outside of shipping costs. I personally know of some of the mods that have helped quite a bit. So, the GS 5 of today is not the same GS 5 as the one that first came out.

Part of the original depth difference between the ML and the GS 5 was the result of lack of field testing and the fact that Eric prides himself in building quiet detectors. Also, Eric doesn't have the facilities to do a decent comparison because his work area is quite congested, thus subject to a lot of various noise sources.

I have heard that most of the depth difference has been rectified by much more testing in OZ by different operators. In fact, some information is coming out that the GS 5 is actually doing better than the GPX on some smaller coin size gold. At least, that is what I have read and heard but not verified. I am posting this and have sent some emails hoping for verification of some of the testing. If I do get verification I will post the information I receive. If I get information indicating the information on the comparison is not correct, I will post that also.

One of the big problems between testing in OZ and here is there, they are hoping for a detector that can find larger gold deeper that what is being found today. thus, their focus is on that aspect. Serious hunters in OZ know there is large gold to be found there that is out of range of what they have to use now.

Here, we need a detector that is superior in finding smaller gold, maybe a 1/2 oz or less, since that is the majority of what we find. So, what may be really needed is two totally separate versions of the GS. Maybe the new Whites PI will be the version needed here.

I guess we will have to wait and see just how it works when the Whites PI does come out.

Reg

[fredm]

Sorry for over reacting, Rob; must be my time of the month...or my too quickly advancing years..........

Reg, like someone that gets a bad reputation for one little mistake no one wants to forget despite your efforts to defend the GS5....I think that if Whites totally remodels the GS5 package it will win folks over...I don't think the GS5 in its present configuration will ever be popular. HOWEVER, for those that want the machine for the things it does well it is an excellent choice. Goerge K bought mine and did very well on the eastern beaches. I met a GS5 owner at the last Gold Basin Outing that really likes his ( I don't recall his name), so as they say in OZ; horses for courses....in english, the right tool for the right job.

MR. BILL...........if you were selling gold at a penny a pound I wouldn't buy it from you...I didn't break anything, nor did I abuse anything......

KISS MY ASS!!!

Fred

[seeker]

I agree Fred WELL SAID........Geo

[Jeff Bucher]

I agree Fred WELL SAID........Geo

[Jeff Bucher]

I have never met anyone that takes better care of his gear than Fred. I've hunted with him for years now and know first hand how much he went through trying to work the bugs out of his GS-5. He's not the one that needs to be slamed. Just my 2cents, Jeff

[Reg]

Fred,

I am sure it sounds like I am defending the GS 5, but that is not my point, nor is that what I am really doing. I am trying to keep things in perspective and accurate when possible. I have also tried to explain why, in my opinion things have evolved as they have.

The reason why I do this is simple, I have had multiple email conversations with Eric over the years and he has explained many things that others have never heard. So, I am sort of privy to the behind the scenes decisions and how the GS 5 got from where it was when it came out, to now.

As an example, before the GS 5 came west for field testing, he indicated he tested it against a SD in his lab and surrounding areas and the GS 5 actually did better. So, he was surprised to hear there was a problem with a depth difference

Ok, now how did that happen? How did the GS 5 surpass the SD in England and fall short here? Simple, where he tested it had a lot more interference than commonly found in the field. Like any other ML PI, the SD don't do interference well, so it was sort of like testing the SD against the GS 5 in the middle of a city or worse yet, under power lines. In my opinion, the SD wasn't performing up to its capability because of the surrounding noise, so the GS 5 seemed to be superior.

Now, put the two detectors in the field away from the noise, and the ML would clearly do better and that is what happened. At least, it is in my opinion and that is based upon the communications I have had on the issue.

Now, in regards to the adapters that allowed the use of ML compatible coils and why they failed, Eric did indicate to me he ran into some problems with the cable. What I don't know is if the problem was isolated with a small portion of a roll, or whether all seemed to be weaker. So, it is very possible, the issue was very isolated in you simply got caught in the middle of it.

Regardless, the adapter cables complicated things just having to use them. Ok, so why didn't Eric use the 5 pin ML type connectors from the onset? Simple, the connectors he was using were clearly superior in terms of reliability to what he could find that were built in the style used by ML. The connectors used by ML and the manufacturers of ML compatible coils were clearly superior to the ones Eric could find from his sources.

Fortunately, another manufacturer offered to sell the connectors to Eric. So, Eric found a reliable source of quality connectors and began to use them. Eric could now use the 5 pin connector making it possible for operators to easily use ML compatible coils.

In my opinion, the manufacturer deserves a special thanks for their willingness to cooperate in this manner. This is what eliminated the need for the adapter and why the GS 5 started with one type connector and changed to the ML type.

As for the battery charging issue, Eric designed the basic charger for convenience. One doesn't have to remove anything or do anything except to plug the charger into the headphone connector to charge the battery. In some ways, this is really a convenience feature for the operator. I personally liked the idea so much that my units can be charged without removing the batteries also.

On the down side, the supplied charger sent with the GS 5 isn't a fast charge design, so it does take a while to fully charge the batteries. I am sure Eric could find a fast charger, but the are much more expensive. I don't think anyone really thought of being able to hunt for extended period of hours like what can be done in Alaska or how it would affect the charging of the battery.

So, Fred, there is a little more to the story on each of the issues mentioned. There are similar stories about other issues but these are the key points already discussed.

What is a bummer is you got caught up in some of the issues. Had I had the time and the money I might have been up in Alaska in the same boat with you, because I probably wouldn't have purchased a second battery or an external charger at the onset either.

I also remember the frustration you had when we hunted together at Greaterville and nothing seemed to work right. I would have been upset too, had that happen to me. I could tell from looking at your equipment that you take good care of it.

Now, in my case if I were to have had the problems you experienced, I would have to cuss out the guy I see in the mirror in the morning. You know me, I have to screw with everything to fit my personal need. Yes, some of the mods I have done didn't work as planned and that is why I carry so many metal detectors with me. Because I did something with good intentions and ended up with a failure is another reason I am more flexible about some issues.

Reg

[fredm]

Reg, I am not faulting you in any way, you are agood teacher because you want to help people understand these issues. I have gone well beyond my usual efforts to avoid any direct and unneccessary bad mouthing of Mr Foster and Co...I think those involved know they should have done right, they had their chance and failed...I took a chance and got the bad end of the deal........my mistake...I am done.

Fred

[Ridge Runner]

On this metal detector race between Minelab,Whites,GS5 are any other name we can come up with the nugget hunter will be the winner. If Whites comes out with the best PI are GS5 comes out with a better one then maybe Minelab will drop their price on the 4000 it could be 4500 by the time they get around to it. I know that my 3500 value may be down to $1500. but I do know that Minelab is the best on the market for nugget hunting and I can't go wrong with it. If I put my money on another detector and after I get it will it fill the bill in what the MFG. said it will do. I may not want to find out the hard way riding a sick horse.

I've been swing Whites for 40 years now and all has been for coin hunting.What I'd like to know is why Whites and Minelab coin detectors are only $200.dollars difference in price thats top of the line of each?Garretts PI is about 1/4 in price of Minelab 4000 but what did I miss not having the 4000 to start with.

I have email Whites over and over again asking about a PI detector for nugget hunting but yet had a reply.

Even if they treat me like a stepchild I'll still use Whites for coin hunting and somebody would have to prove they got something better to get me to switch. I guess this is why I'll keep using Minelab for nug hunt.

Did you ever think that you would spend more money on a detector than you could buy a new car for at one time?

Anybody can build a detector from a kit and I have done that. Now to build one from the ground up you have to know more than Pie- R- SQ. no Pie- R- Round cornbread SQ. if you get what I mean.

I see it all now that Rob will someday come out with a new package this is not saying its not the best in the land now but it will be buy one get one free. So any of you want to up grade to the 4000 I'll go in half's with you.

Not out of Bull in Texas!

Chuck Anders

[rexb]

...he tested it [where there was] a lot more interference than commonly found in the field. Like any other ML, the SD don't do interference well, so it was sort of like testing the SD against the GS 5 in the middle of a city or worse yet, under power lines.

oh my.

[Mr. Bill]

Well Fred there's always 2 sides to a story. It's not one sided as you want to make it.

You, and I are the only ones that know the truth, to everyone else it's just speculation.

I, like you had not brought this up before. I felt I had no choice after your posting of such mis-information that you spewed on this page.

One thing for sure I do know what damaged the pigtail leads. You twisted the cable connector so hard you broke the mounting off of everyone of them internally. Not the cable, but you broke the connector. Having information passed to you, taken out of context by others, does not correct the issue.

This is enough of this from me. I do hope you find a detector that lives up to expectations.

Mr. Bill

PS: How come you didn't tell me to Kiss your Ass when I help to sell your 2 detectors ?

MR. BILL...........if you were selling gold at a penny a pound I wouldn't buy it from you...I didn't break anything, nor did I abuse anything......

KISS MY ASS!!!

Fred

[fredm]

Bill...your memory is as weak as your intregrity....I assure you this is not going to get you any more of the only thing you seem to value...not truth, not justice...but Money.

my back is turned please pucker up.

Fred

[Reg]

Hi Chuck,

Nobody is saying the ML isn't a good detector or that anyone is going to bring out something so dramatic that all others are going to be a poor second best. The technology will not allow that to happen. As far as depth goes, we are about maxed out. What will help some is reducing noise and smoothing signals. This is why there hasn't been that dramatic of depth increases between models of ML's.

Yes, we have seen more improvement on the smaller stuff, but not much movement on the larger gold, meaning on gold 1 oz and larger.

I don't expect the Whites to be a ML killer, nor do I expect all the mods to the GS 5 to make it superior either. I also do not think Whites will answer any emails about their PI regardless of who might ask. So, I wouldn't be upset over the fact they haven't answered yours. If you take a look at all the things that have been said about "hype" and what has been said about detectors such as the GS5, their position of not saying anything at this time is clearly the best. At least, that way, they can't be accused of "hype" that isn't true. Actually, I am sure they will be accused anyway regardless.

As to what I do expect to see on future detectors, well I do expect to see some improvement in discrimination but even that will take some time. Personally, I feel the Gs 5 has the best discriminator right now, but comes in second on depth. However, I have not tried the Garrett so it could be better for all I know.

As for the Garrett, I have never used one but I won't bad mouth them either. There are people who do quite well with them and prefer them. A good example is the guy, "grandpa" who recently posted on another forum he preferred his Infinium to his son's GP 3500. In his post, he indicated the Infinium would hit most targets as deep as his ML.

Now, over the long haul, I suspect there is more truth to what grandpa said than people realize or want to believe. The fact is, there will be times and places one detector brand will do better than another. Also, most testing of the Garrett didn't last as long as a snowball in hell when the detector first came out. In my opinion, it takes time to fully learn any detector and until that happens, no one is going to be the best. If this really wasn't the case, then everyone should be finding nuggets as often as anyone else using the same detector.

As for detectors and who has the greatest depth, well that depends on a lot of factors. If you think not, then just challenge to compare detectors to buried target tests right under power lines. Some detectors will really talk to you when you raise the coil up in the air. Others will still be silent or display just a minimum of noise increase. Is this important? It certainly could be if you want to run a test or hunt the side of a steep bank.

Some people complain that they get strange signals off fences, so we should include a test around them. Then we need a test in a flight line as well as one in the most remote location we can find. Of course, we need to have a test in neutral ground and and a different one in "hot" red clay. Lets do a test in water as well as one in a hot dry location.

Lets pick another test in a basalt field, and another test in a trashy location.

Of course, we should check or test depth comparisons on all sizes of gold including up to a few oz in size, and down to the "invisible" nuggets.

In other words, if you really want to know who or what detector is the best over the long run, you need to run all these tests not just one and not just once, since all conditions exist and we get better or worse with time. Better yet, all tests should be run using the same coil and the coil sizes should be close to the same when possible. They should also be run during the winter and then summer. Don't forget to run the same tests when the ground is dry and later when the ground is wet.

Now, if any detector can win on every one of the above test, then I think we can call it the ultimate detector. Personally, I don't think that will ever happen.

Reg