Deepers sends X5 Metal Detector for Testing

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Just got this e-mail back from Deepers

Dear Allen

Unfortunately our detectors have been designed mostly for deep target hunting and not gold nuggets in particular.

We always advise our clients which are looking for gold nugget hunting (mostly in the US) to get a Minelab.

Best regards,

Adrien Châtillon

Deepers Sales Team

Thank you for the update. Its good to see the honest response from Deepers

doug

Australian Electronic Gold prospecting Forum

http://australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum.com/index.php

[Huego 1]

...."Unfortunately our detectors have been designed mostly for deep target hunting and not gold nuggets in particular. We always advise our clients which are looking for gold nugget hunting (mostly in the US) to get a Minelab." .... (Deepers)

Well, that may be an honest response BUT it does not sound like it is suitable for use by gold (nugget) prospectors, especially not in Australia where mineralised soil conditions are mostly more difficult than in the USA.

I wonder who their target market is if its not gold prospectors? They definitely need to provide more clarity with this product - specifications, advertising and promotion of its strengths. WHAT DOES IT EXCEL AT?

Huego

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

BTW Doug what is the minimum mA/H average the QED will function at? AzNuggetBob

see:

Re: QED update

Reply #3 on: Today at 02:35:41 PM

http://australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum.com/index.php?topic=8.msg140#new

doug

[AZNuggetBob]

Thanks Doug, Board looks great. AzNuggetBob

[DOC]

The Deepers Detector will be like so many more detectors that are out there. It may be OK, but it will not compete with the GPX4500.

Yes I am "bashing" it and I haven't even used it. I am from Las Vegas, I am playing the odds, and the odds are, that the Deepers detector comes no where close to a Minelab GPX4500 or an SD2200 for that matter. We will see what the field reports say, but logic tells me it is not in the same class. And by the way, I am sure that the DEEPERS detector works, and there is probably a market out there for it, if someone can't afford a Minelab. And I am sure it is the very best detector that DEEPERS can make. But it isn't a Minelab and it will not compete with a Minelab on any level.

I mean common sense tells you that the GPX4500 is a culmination of years and years of research and development and detector evolution.

The first was the 2000, then the 2100 then 2200 then the GP series, now the GPX4000 and the GPX4500.

How many times over the years have we got excited that someone else was coming out with a pulse induction machine? Sure they come out and they work, but after three months of use, the HO HUM factor sets in and the truth of the field tests prove what we should have suspected; "It works, but it is not as good as a Minelab."

Isn't it really expecting a little much for a company who just comes out of nowhere with their first PI detector, to have simply jumped over the 20 years of learning curve and development that Minelab has under their belt?

I mean my hat is off to anyone that can do that, and basically surpass the genius that is Bruce Candy. I mean have you ever heard Bruce Candy talk. The guy is so intelligent and operates at a level so far beyond my comprehension that I have dubbed him the Steven Hawking of metal detection technology.

BUT what are the chances of someone doing that? Slim and none. It would be akin to someone who is 7 laps behind in a race somehow managing to make up all 7 laps and actually pulling ahead of the person in the lead. When does that ever happen?

MINELAB's trademark line: World's Best Metal Detection Technologies

Not one of the best, THE BEST! If it isn't true, then how come someone doesn't sue them? I mean that is a pretty boisterous claim!

There is a reason why no one sues them. Because EVERYONE, even their competitors, know that statement is true. Minelab detectors represent the World's Best Metal Detection Technologies.

And yes I am a Minelab dealer. But I only carry Minelab's because I truly believe they do have the best metal detectors available. I will be tickled to death to see someone who offers Minelab some competition because I know it will make Minelab work even harder, but I haven't seen it yet.

Show me a company that has been in business for as many years as Minelab, who has large contracts for mine sweepers with NATO, has consistently produced machines that set the standard for depth and handling mineralization, and who Minelab is licensing technology from, to use in developing Minelab detectors, and then I may have some interest in seeing what this other company has to offer.

Certainly there are other good detectors, WHITES, FISHER, TESORO, but they are not Minelabs.

I own a Gold Bug II, it's a fun little machine for tailing piles, but not for serious detecting.

Someone would almost have to produce a detector that uses a totally different technology, something so cutting edge that Minelab hasn't even considered it. Something like a detector that identifies gold by it's molecular structure. Because until that happens I really think Minelab has a lock on the PI market.

So that's my two cents. I don't have the time to waste on detectors that are almost as good as Minelab. I have a safe full of gold that tells me the Minelabs I have been using all these years represent the best technology available today.

Doc

[claim jumper]

The Deepers Detector will be like so many more detectors that are out there. It may be OK, but it will not compete with the GPX4500.

Yes I am "bashing" it and I haven't even used it. I am from Las Vegas, I am playing the odds, and the odds are, that the Deepers detector comes no where close to a Minelab GPX4500 or an SD2200 for that matter. We will see what the field reports say, but logic tells me it is not in the same class. And by the way, I am sure that the DEEPERS detector works, and there is probably a market out there for it, if someone can't afford a Minelab. And I am sure it is the very best detector that DEEPERS can make. But it isn't a Minelab and it will not compete with a Minelab on any level.

I mean common sense tells you that the GPX4500 is a culmination of years and years of research and development and detector evolution.

The first was the 2000, then the 2100 then 2200 then the GP series, now the GPX4000 and the GPX4500.

How many times over the years have we got excited that someone else was coming out with a pulse induction machine? Sure they come out and they work, but after three months of use, the HO HUM factor sets in and the truth of the field tests prove what we should have suspected; "It works, but it is not as good as a Minelab."

Isn't it really expecting a little much for a company who just comes out of nowhere with their first PI detector, to have simply jumped over the 20 years of learning curve and development that Minelab has under their belt?

I mean my hat is off to anyone that can do that, and basically surpass the genius that is Bruce Candy. I mean have you ever heard Bruce Candy talk. The guy is so intelligent and operates at a level so far beyond my comprehension that I have dubbed him the Steven Hawking of metal detection technology.

BUT what are the chances of someone doing that? Slim and none. It would be akin to someone who is 7 laps behind in a race somehow managing to make up all 7 laps and actually pulling ahead of the person in the lead. When does that ever happen?

MINELAB's trademark line: World's Best Metal Detection Technologies

Not one of the best, THE BEST! If it isn't true, then how come someone doesn't sue them? I mean that is a pretty boisterous claim!

There is a reason why no one sues them. Because EVERYONE, even their competitors, know that statement is true. Minelab detectors represent the World's Best Metal Detection Technologies.

And yes I am a Minelab dealer. But I only carry Minelab's because I truly believe they do have the best metal detectors available. I will be tickled to death to see someone who offers Minelab some competition because I know it will make Minelab work even harder, but I haven't seen it yet.

Show me a company that has been in business for as many years as Minelab, who has large contracts for mine sweepers with NATO, has consistently produced machines that set the standard for depth and handling mineralization, and who Minelab is licensing technology from, to use in developing Minelab detectors, and then I may have some interest in seeing what this other company has to offer.

Certainly there are other good detectors, WHITES, FISHER, TESORO, but they are not Minelabs.

I own a Gold Bug II, it's a fun little machine for tailing piles, but not for serious detecting.

Someone would almost have to produce a detector that uses a totally different technology, something so cutting edge that Minelab hasn't even considered it. Something like a detector that identifies gold by it's molecular structure. Because until that happens I really think Minelab has a lock on the PI market.

So that's my two cents. I don't have the time to waste on detectors that are almost as good as Minelab. I have a safe full of gold that tells me the Minelabs I have been using all these years represent the best technology available today.

Doc

You are going to get the wrath of HUEGO back here singing "The QED will speak for itself when it is released." if you keep making sense Doc!!!!

[pkirkll]

Hey doc,

It is really hard to tell you are a loyal ML distributor from, your post...LOL....

The guys from deeper already cried, "calf-roped"..

I don't think they were prepared for all the expertise that the ML's have here in the USA, even from laymen detectorists.

This is a direct result of this forum educating people about detectors,,,,even ML's....smile...

I give Rob credit for accepting the deeper detector to field test w/o getting biased....and I give deeper's credit for sending a detector and eventually admitting ML has the best gold detector on the market, that took a little class.

I am getting a used ML when I get back to AZ a day or two and I would like to see MLUSA service discussed by this ML educated crowd, on another topic, not this thread ......I see a lot of negative posts on that and was just wondering what's up with that.

Good hunting eveyone!

Paul

PS I hope no one ever takes any of my thoughts personaly.

I am on here to learn from the best.

My statement about not having to "bash" the opponent stands...it is unecessary if we are truly the best...I spent a couple of years with Special Forces ODA 331 in 10th Group and found most troops who are the best know it and don't have to advertise.

The cream is always at the top!

[nuggethunting]

Hello All,

Well I finally got back in the valley, but was able to do some preliminary tests with the Deepers X5. I've been in contact with Deeper's to make sure I'm doing everything correctly. The unit is very touchy, meaning if you're a tiny bit out of balance you basically loose everything. You really have to understand your settings on this unit, if not, you could sacrifice walking over good targets.

The unit struggles on mineralization, especially soil that contains iron or volcanics. The only solution a few partners and I seen was to keep the searchcoil a few inches off the ground. This means a few inches lost in depth, but from what we concluded there wasn't another solution in mineralized ground conditions.

The unit also struggles on small targets, such as small gold nuggets. However, the company has never advertised the unit to find small gold nuggets or very small targets. We are testing to see if the unit could be used to find small gold nuggets.

Our preliminary tests were with the Deeper's and four other detectors (VLF and PI's). For overall depth, the unit seems to be somewhere between a VLF and entry level PI. A VLF in the all metal mode seems to get more depth, but a VLF in the relic or coin mode doesn't. This is kind of puzzling, but needs more testing to prove out.

Overall depth test were fair to good in most tests.

Discrimination was impressive on some targets. We were able to completely elliminate a "pull tab," but still find good metallic targets such as coins right next to the pull tab.

Like I said, more tests need to be done. I would like to get a group of interested people together for testing.

Talk with you later,

Rob Allison

[Huego 1]

Hey doc,

It is really hard to tell you are a loyal ML distributor from, your post...LOL....

The guys from deeper already cried, "calf-roped"... I give Rob credit for accepting the deeper detector to field test w/o getting biased....and I give deeper's credit for sending a detector and eventually admitting ML has the best gold detector on the market, that took a little class.

I am getting a used ML when I get back to AZ a day or two and I would like to see ML-USA service discussed by this ML educated crowd, on another topic, not this thread ......I see a lot of negative posts on that and was just wondering what's up with that.

Good hunting eveyone!

Paul

PS I hope no one ever takes any of my thoughts personaly. I am on here to learn from the best.

My statement about not having to "bash" the opponent stands...it is unecessary if we are truly the best...I spent a couple of years with Special Forces ODA 331 in 10th Group and found most troops who are the best know it and don't have to advertise. The cream is always at the top!

Good post Paul.

I hope someone here is listening. Don't count on it. Being a US serviceman may make a difference. I agree 100% with you if you are the best you don't need to advertise. It is self evident. Technology is a bit different (quality service price and many other factors come in) and this market leader knows it.

Praise is always welcome here but anything negative (eg about ML-USA) is another matter. Asking for a "discussion" on problems is not welcome here I have found. I hope you have more luck. I tried & specified the ML-USA problems as I saw them. The problems were IGNORED but the messenger was shot instead! That's one way of addressing problems by ML-USA! :lol:

Deepers (from what I see & read) is no comparison to a 4500 for gold (nugget) detection, BUT from what I read on another forum (NASA TOM's) the TDI is more than a match for the 4500 in some of his tests! But that's another story, for another post, in another place.

Cheers Huego

[pkirkll]

Uh-oh, do I get a blindfold...lol

C'mon, it can't be that serious.......can it?

I say again, I am just trying to learn...

[Huego 1]

Uh-oh, do I get a blindfold...lol

C'mon, it can't be that serious.......can it?

I say again, I am just trying to learn...

Well, that's what I thought ......

Saying your "trying to learn" suggest you still have an open mind, and can still be converted. I'm branded a "ML basher" etc because I invited comment & discussion on their problems, competition, contentious issues etc and responded strongly to other's abusive reactions to my posts. Paul, you may be spared (if not speared or hung) if you just sing praises (in tune of course )

I have an old ML, it has been good to me and found me lots of gold. They are not the market leader for nothing! But there is more to the ML story if you want to explore it further. Thats up to you. You are not compelled by me or anyone to look for any problems. Just start and look for gold, it might be enough. Just enjoy this great hobby.

Good luck. Huego

[Gogmeister]

What amazes me is how a certain few will hijack perfectly innocent posts within threads, into Minelab bashing threads. Doc (a Minelab dealer) has expressed an opinion based on years of experience, and is being shot down because of a tenuous affiliation.... does his opinion count for nothing, because he's a dealer of another product? Of course not! He's still an experienced dealer with many years in the hobby.... and as far as I'm concerned, his opinions carry more weight than those with irrational hatred of a manufacture that has consistently produced product that 1) have paid off my mortgage 2) given me a year on year income (an income that has been generated from finds.)

....... I'll get my coat

[Huego 1]

HIJACK???? Expressing a different opinion is not hijacking. Freedom of speech mate, is a basic human right in the "land of the free and home of the brave". You can defend doc but you are defending nothing because he is not (nor is ML) under attack! I enjoy balancing the advertising with some reality and giving another viewpoint.

Paul, the above is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Did ANYONE shoot down Doc’s advertising? Nope. Not you, nor me. Anyone I missed? He gave his opinion. That’s fine, I give mine sometimes, and that should be fine too. I am not selling any message or product.

Your comment that docs account was like a heavy-duty advert for ML. It was. (Not surprising, as it’s his business selling ML.) This is a ML forum devoted to promoting ML products & generating sales. His experience as a dealer is of no concern to me, nor are sales. I occasionally give alternative viewpoint, which I certainly don’t see as “ML bashing” (it is not ML supporting so does that make it “bashing”?)

[pkirkll]

i'm not selling anything,,,,,i am a BUYER at this point.....and I can ask any dang question I want to to further my knowledge of this great sport/vocation....., don't you get it,,,when i buy something i like to have some information about it, and the way i get information is to ask questions.....so grow up and quit getting so bent out of shape.....don't be so thin skinned and defensive-----

jimeeneez, it's like kid's corner in here sometimes,,, Rob has this forum , and a forum is a place where people get together to talk about things, not thing (singular)

You know this could really turn a newcomer off, fortunately for me i got to correspond with Rob a little before all this crap...i take him for a decent guy...and also because i am pretty thick headed...i mean thick skinned , too! (grin)

I sure do get a different feel for the way the crowd over in norcal sounds and acts...they truly seem to enjoy each other and have a good time sharing and experiencing their love for the outdoors/gold/friendship--------that would be nice over here...........

Allow me to reintroduce myself to the forum:

I my name is Paul , and I own a GB2 and will have a ML 4000 very shortly! A Yellow Jacket Jobe Highbanker, Weekender Drywasher, 2" dredge, etc.

and i have, "Gold Fever"

[Huego 1]

i'm not selling anything,,,,,i am a BUYER at this point.....and I can ask any dang question I want to to further my knowledge of this great sport/vocation....., don't you get it,,,when i buy something i like to have some information about it, and the way i get information is to ask questions.....so grow up and quit getting so bent out of shape.....don't be so thin skinned and defensive-----

jimeeneez, it's like kid's corner in here sometimes,,, Rob has this forum , and a forum is a place where people get together to talk about things, not thing (singular)

You know this could really turn a newcomer off, fortunately for me i got to correspond with Rob a little before all this crap...i take him for a decent guy...and also because i am pretty thick headed...i mean thick skinned , too! (grin)

Allow me to reintroduce myself to the forum:

I my name is Paul , and I own a GB2 and will have a ML 4000 very shortly! A Yellow Jacket Jobe Highbanker, Weekender Drywasher, 2" dredge, etc. and i have, "Gold Fever"

Dang Paul, most of my comment was not addressed at YOU but Gogmeister's comment! Hey, I don't want to advertise ML products (or anything else). Yep, you can ask any dang question you like. Just like me, I can make any damn comment on subjects I like. I've had to have a thick skin to take the crap from the abusers here and elsewhere. But its fun! Lets get back to the real subject Deepers.

Enjoy your hobby and your new ML and the advertising.

[pkirkll]

Sorry huego,

I misposted to you instead of the forum at large....hahahha, this gets funnier by the minute....

Ps if you know anyone who buys birdshot, let me know.....I haven't even found my first nugget yet, so maybe I should spend less time here and more digging targets...see you....again I apologize

Back to deepers,,how's it looking rob?

Same as your last post?

[

[Guest dennis sanders]

The Deepers Detector will be like so many more detectors that are out there. It may be OK, but it will not compete with the GPX4500.

Yes I am "bashing" it and I haven't even used it. I am from Las Vegas, I am playing the odds, and the odds are, that the Deepers detector comes no where close to a Minelab GPX4500 or an SD2200 for that matter. We will see what the field reports say, but logic tells me it is not in the same class. And by the way, I am sure that the DEEPERS detector works, and there is probably a market out there for it, if someone can't afford a Minelab. And I am sure it is the very best detector that DEEPERS can make. But it isn't a Minelab and it will not compete with a Minelab on any level.

I mean common sense tells you that the GPX4500 is a culmination of years and years of research and development and detector evolution.

The first was the 2000, then the 2100 then 2200 then the GP series, now the GPX4000 and the GPX4500.

How many times over the years have we got excited that someone else was coming out with a pulse induction machine? Sure they come out and they work, but after three months of use, the HO HUM factor sets in and the truth of the field tests prove what we should have suspected; "It works, but it is not as good as a Minelab."

Isn't it really expecting a little much for a company who just comes out of nowhere with their first PI detector, to have simply jumped over the 20 years of learning curve and development that Minelab has under their belt?

I mean my hat is off to anyone that can do that, and basically surpass the genius that is Bruce Candy. I mean have you ever heard Bruce Candy talk. The guy is so intelligent and operates at a level so far beyond my comprehension that I have dubbed him the Steven Hawking of metal detection technology.

BUT what are the chances of someone doing that? Slim and none. It would be akin to someone who is 7 laps behind in a race somehow managing to make up all 7 laps and actually pulling ahead of the person in the lead. When does that ever happen?

MINELAB's trademark line: World's Best Metal Detection Technologies

Not one of the best, THE BEST! If it isn't true, then how come someone doesn't sue them? I mean that is a pretty boisterous claim!

There is a reason why no one sues them. Because EVERYONE, even their competitors, know that statement is true. Minelab detectors represent the World's Best Metal Detection Technologies.

And yes I am a Minelab dealer. But I only carry Minelab's because I truly believe they do have the best metal detectors available. I will be tickled to death to see someone who offers Minelab some competition because I know it will make Minelab work even harder, but I haven't seen it yet.

Show me a company that has been in business for as many years as Minelab, who has large contracts for mine sweepers with NATO, has consistently produced machines that set the standard for depth and handling mineralization, and who Minelab is licensing technology from, to use in developing Minelab detectors, and then I may have some interest in seeing what this other company has to offer.

Certainly there are other good detectors, WHITES, FISHER, TESORO, but they are not Minelabs.

I own a Gold Bug II, it's a fun little machine for tailing piles, but not for serious detecting.

Someone would almost have to produce a detector that uses a totally different technology, something so cutting edge that Minelab hasn't even considered it. Something like a detector that identifies gold by it's molecular structure. Because until that happens I really think Minelab has a lock on the PI market.

So that's my two cents. I don't have the time to waste on detectors that are almost as good as Minelab. I have a safe full of gold that tells me the Minelabs I have been using all these years represent the best technology available today.

Doc

i wouldnt get to carried away doc they may make the best gold detector..as far as a coin machine goes nothing beats a troy shadow x5 and thats a fact

[nuggethunting]

Hello All,

Still testing the unit when I can. A few more friends and I testing the unit this weekend for a few hours. The units lacks sensitivity to small targets with both coils, but gets a good amount of depth. You really have to know this unit, cause if you're out of adjustment just a bit, you will loose most of your performance.

The discrimination is very interesting. Like I mentioned before, it's the only PI that will discriminate out a pull tab, but still find good metal objects, such as coins right near the pull tab.

Still testing and experimenting with various settings. I will announce a time and place where I will have the unit available for anyone to view and test. I would like to get as many people as possible to see the unit so Deepers can get a fair shake of opinions.

Talk with you later,

Rob Allison

[DOC]

I take no offense at all for anything that has been said. Yes I am a Minelab dealer, but more importantly I am a Minelab user. That is where my fierce loyalty comes from.

If something better comes out I will be the first to say. WOW, this is fantastic. I am just speaking from years of experience not only with Minelabs but getting my expectations up in anticipation of some new machine just to find out it is a huge disappointment.

Like I said I think it is just pure logic, Minelab is so far ahead of the learning curve, it would take a damn miracle for someone to catch up and surpass them.

Look at what Rob has said already. The DEEPERS machine has to be perfectly balanced or you lose everything and could lose targets. MINELAB, heck it does it all for you, Multi-period sensing, constantly monitors balance, and keeps the machine optimized for ground conditions.

Don't take my advice and buy a machine from me if you think all I am doing is trying to sell Minelabs. TAKE MY Advice and buy a Minelab from someone else instead! :-)

Doc

HIJACK???? Expressing a different opinion is not hijacking. Freedom of speech mate, is a basic human right in the "land of the free and home of the brave". You can defend doc but you are defending nothing because he is not (nor is ML) under attack! I enjoy balancing the advertising with some reality and giving another viewpoint.

Paul, the above is a perfect example of what I was talking about. Did ANYONE shoot down Doc’s advertising? Nope. Not you, nor me. Anyone I missed? He gave his opinion. That’s fine, I give mine sometimes, and that should be fine too. I am not selling any message or product.

Your comment that docs account was like a heavy-duty advert for ML. It was. (Not surprising, as it’s his business selling ML.) This is a ML forum devoted to promoting ML products & generating sales. His experience as a dealer is of no concern to me, nor are sales. I occasionally give alternative viewpoint, which I certainly don’t see as “ML bashing” (it is not ML supporting so does that make it “bashing”?)

[Qld Sandy]

This is a ML forum devoted to promoting ML products & generating sales. His experience as a dealer is of no concern to me, nor are sales. I occasionally give alternative viewpoint, which I certainly don’t see as “ML bashing”

Hi Rob, Doc and All,

If the above quote was correct then this forum would be full of advertising and nothing else, as would all the other prospecting forums deemed to be "Minelab Forums".

If a forum is branded as a "Minelab Forum" because it is supposedly defending them, then I'd have to believe in all fairness that any forum that chastises them should be branded as an "Anti-Minelab Forum" or even a "Minelab Bashers Forum" and the members who participate in these events, in all fairness, be branded "Minelab Bashers".

Don't take my advice and buy a machine from me if you think all I am doing is trying to sell Minelabs. TAKE MY Advice and buy a Minelab from someone else instead! :-)

Doc

If Doc was only interested in selling gear then he certainly wouldn't say that. Just because someone is a dealer for a certain brand of equipment doesn't mean he isn't capable of being having an opinion, or even a valid, balanced opinion.

I look forward to more testing reports from people I have never met, but I respect the opinions of. Cheers.

[Iron Horse]

My 2 cents,

I was actually glad to see a unit show up for testing (wasn't too sure one would ever show). Whether it performs as well as a ML... at least someone is trying. I think maybe Doug should come and show us how the machine works and then it can be compared side by side with the ML products. I seem to remember about 6 months ago everyone was griping that you could only find a 4500 on ebay for gross amounts of money. Seems to me that competition would be a good thing. And yes I've seen and read Doug's posts here and elsewhere and he does have a tendancy to get outlandish at times but bring on the competition.

For those of us who are challenged in the pocketbook department ML doesn't do us any favors.

Iron Horse

[nuggethunting]

Hello All,

Here are some pictures from one of the first testings we conducted around Prescott, AZ. We used the Minelab GPX-4500, Minelab X-Terra 705 and the new Deepers.

From the first testing results the Minelab GPX-4500 was King hands down on depth, mineral immunity and sensitivity to small targets. The X-Terra in the "All Metal" or Prospecting Mode" actually got better depth on some targets, but in the "Coin/Relic" mode it lost about half the depth and the Deepers excelled.

The Deepers didn't do very well on moderate to high mineralization, whether it was iron or volcanic type mineralization. The Deepers really struggled on small targets, such as small gold nuggets in the range of 1-2 Grams. On larger gold nuggets from about 1/4 ounce and up it had fair depth on them. However, these were strickly air tests or tests on very low mineralization.

On larger targets, such targets coin and relic hunters might search for, it done well. The discrimination is very interesting also, to the point where I'm trying to figure out what it's telling me.

More testing needs to be done to make a fair opinion about the Deepers. I'm hoping to get others involved in some testing, per my agreement with Deepers.

Just to let you all know, Deepers didn't make any claims on what the detector would do. They never claimed it would be a great nuggetshooter, never claimed it would out do a Minelab PI and never claimed it would find small targets. They wanted to know how the unit would do here in the US on some mineralized ground and if it could be a nuggetshooting type PI.

Just my findings for now ....

Rob Allison

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

My 2 cents,

I think maybe Doug should come and show us how the machine works.

Iron Horse

This will become apparent when the QED patent application is published.

For all info on the QED or to ask questions about it or talk with the QED designer or the USA Goldsweeper designer come to my new forum because InPlus GPOZ is dead!

All aspects of the field testing of the SM board version QED's (being made now) will be made public on my forum warts and all!

all the best,

doug

http://australianelectronicgoldprospectingforum.com/index.php

[Huego 1]

This is a ML forum, devoted to promoting & supporting ML products, their users & generating new sales.

Doc's experience as a dealer is of no concern to me, nor are sales. I occasionally give an alternative viewpoint, which I certainly don’t see as “ML bashing” (Huego)

I made NO suggestion that this forum is “full of advertising and nothing else”. That is a typical exageration. Doc’s praise of ML reads like advertising & endorsement, but that is no surprise (or a criticism) from me.

BUT, mention another poster (eg Doug), other products (viz QED) and the Aussie rat pack came rushing in full of abuse & vitriol, with cries "ban them, go home to your forum, shut up, prove it, ML basher" etc ..... remember?

This forum is called a "Minelab Forum" (by many) because it one of a few run by ML dealers promoting & selling ML. That’s not all they do, I never said that, QS did. Praising of ML products is ok by me, it’s a ML forum. They are THE market leader, and understandably, there is lots to praise, but I won’t join you. Few have the courage to say anything negative or questioning of ML or speak about what can be improved. Alternative views eg on sales/exports to Sudan, answers / questions on QED etc result in attacks on the messengers. WHY? It’s a ML forum. Those who find fault are often denigrated. This is from my personal experience and that's why it’s a ………….

BUT a forum that allows other products to be discussed and alternative views to be expressed & welcomed, can that be branded as an "Anti-Minelab Forum" or "Minelab Bashers Forum"?? No. It would ONLY be called that by the likes of those Aussies (abusers mostly) who defend ML like lemmings, at the exclusion of all competition or threats.

“Just because someone (like Doc) is a dealer for a certain brand of equipment doesn't mean he isn't capable of being having an opinion, or even a valid, balanced opinion.” (QS)

Similarly, someone who is NOT a ML dealer, but is keen on supporting any competition to ML, is capable of giving a reasonable, valid (supportable) & balanced opinion, should also be capable of expressing their opinion.

Those who do comparative testing of competitor’s products may be biased towards ML, as ML dealers or enthusiasts likely are, are expected to be publically & behaviouraly loyal. I encourage you to stick with ML if you are so biased. If you don’t believe eg the QED testers (who will not be selected for their bias but for their professional experience & fairness) it will not matter. Testing of the Deepers X5 could be said to be by biased ML testers, many biased testers does not make them less biased. Bias is everywhere. The credibility and itegrity of Bob will be used in believing what is posted. The tests on the QED will also be done by experienced ML users too as the Deepers testing is.

Iron horse, I suspect you are talking about the QED, It was never said (by Doug or me or anyone) it would match or beat the 4500 and all that preceeded it from ML. (Doc believes it most unlikely, I believe otherwise.) That was rumour spread by mischief-makers. What I suggested was that this should or would be a lofty design goal. I believe it is that. This objective can be reached in a number of ways - technical performance, price, user friendliness etc etc. From early tests I was convinced it will met that goal on a number of points. Perhaps the Deepers product does in some ways too?

Huego

[claim jumper]

Huego, you say "It was never said (by Doug or me or anyone it would match or beat the 4500 " above, are you lying???

And sorry to tell you the bad news, but screen shots are legal here in the USA!!!!