Nuggets and a broken ferrite ring


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The Golden Fox and I hit the LSD area yesterday. Sure were a lot of people out and about, prospectors, hunters, four wheelers, shooters, etc.. Love it...America! :thumbsupanim Finally broke the ferrite ring for the GPZ, knew it was just a matter of time :rolleyes: We picked up the broken pieces and with a little super glue and duct tape :idea: we’ll see if it still works. Beautiful day! Time to get ready to for a multi day camp out and hunt next week after the holiday weekend is behind us.

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Minelab just confirmed that any ferrite ring is ok to use with the GPZ via email. I also used this opportunity to get an answer to a 6 month old question, you can see the thread here http://nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/topic/31606-nuggets-and-a-broken-ferrite-ring/?do=findComment&comment=289710 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hello Rod,

After speaking with our technician he feels that an aftermarket ferrite ring should be ok to use.

Thank you,

Tracy
Customer Care & BDM Administrator
Minelab Americas

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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On 1/19/2018 at 12:42 AM, Rod said:

Minelab just confirmed that any ferrite ring is ok to use with the GPZ via email. I also used this opportunity to get an answer to a 6 month old question, you can see the thread here http://nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/topic/31606-nuggets-and-a-broken-ferrite-ring/?do=findComment&comment=289710 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Hello Rod,

After speaking with our technician he feels that an aftermarket ferrite ring should be ok to use.

Thank you,

Tracy
Customer Care & BDM Administrator
Minelab Americas

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

Rod, you can't just use any Ferrite ring for the GPZ. Please read this Knowledge Base Article where is states .......

Quote

A ‘dust iron’ toroid suitable for the HF frequency band (e.g.1–30MHz with an initial permeability of between 6 and 10) has been carefully selected. It is recommended to use this specific Minelab accessory, only. Alternate ferrites may significantly degrade ground balance quality.

Regards

Jonathan Porter

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Sounds like Minelab USA and Minelab Aus and JP (based on the comment JP just made INSISTING you have to buy the Minelab one) all see this differently, the real question is this... why the H E double hockey sticks are people not PLACING their ferrite on the ground instead of tossing it, I mean seriously, it's not metal and its made up of compressed powder, of course it will break. That being said, is anyone surprised that Minelab (the company that dropped their 10k detector down to 7k, sells them at cost of a couple grand less than that and can afford to sell them to dealers as demo models for 4k) would rather insist that you pay $18.00 for a chunk of compressed powder that you can buy a batch of 50 on ebay for at $3.29, give your head a shake.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/7mm-Inner-Diameter-Ferrite-Ring-Iron-Toroid-Cores-Yellow-White-50PCS-LW/181834403242?epid=1269210767&hash=item2a562ccdaa:g:iEYAAOSw4UtWTwGZ

Come on people... I think the real slip up here is a tech in Chicago let the truth slip... buy your bag of 50 for $3.29 and you have 49 spares to share with all your friends... after a few minutes of swinging it will all balance out in the end anyway won't it.

... or go back to spending $18.00 for one and be able to say you drank the Minelab Kool-Aid.

Jen

Edited by jjbond
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49 minutes ago, Jonathan Porter said:

 

Rod, you can't just use any Ferrite ring for the GPZ. Please read this Knowledge Base Article where is states .......

Regards

Jonathan Porter

Appreciate the link and info JP. Don't know what to tell ya, only know what Minelab stated to me. I used an aftermarket ferrite (dust iron) with my GPZ and saw no performance changes.

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24 minutes ago, Rod said:

I used an aftermarket ferrite (dust iron) with my GPZ and saw no performance changes.

... and that's all that matters to you and to us, is what works for US not for JP or Minelab... :D

I'm glad to hear you noticed no difference, it confirmed what I'd suspected from day one, I just hadn't broken my ferrite yet to replace it to determine for myself, thank you for taking one for the team, may your original ferrite RIP. :D

It's death has saved us all lots of money..haha

Jen

Edited by jjbond
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This is what your tips sheet actually says JP.

"In order to artificially add extra data for improved ground balance 
calibration, you can use a dust iron toroid, commonly referred to as an 
electronics 'ferrite'. The electronics industry uses these magnetic cores 
extensively in computers, televisions, and mobile phones."

You can use a dust iron torroid, commonly referred to as an electronics 'ferrite'."

It says "a" ferrite.

It further says:

"A ‘dust iron’ toroid suitable for the HF frequency band (e.g.1–30MHz 
with an initial permeability of between 6 and 10) has been carefully 
selected. It is recommended to use this specific Minelab accessory, 
only. Alternate ferrites may significantly degrade ground balance 
quality."

The Minelab ferrite is recommend. Not required. Maybe I'm splitting hairs but again, my aftermarket iron dust ferrite seems to work fine. Your truck manufacturer probably suggests using their headlights, oil, tranny fluid, etc.; however any will do the job in most cases.

That said, if I'm not understanding something, I'm certainly open to learning.

Edited by Rod
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I honestly don't know what to say.... the point of my post was to inform you could/should NOT use JUST ANY Ferrite ring but to use as quoted in the Minelab KBA

Quote

A ‘dust iron’ toroid suitable for the HF frequency band (e.g.1–30MHz with an initial permeability of between 6 and 10) has been carefully selected. It is recommended to use this specific Minelab accessory, only. Alternate ferrites may significantly degrade ground balance quality.

The emphasis/intention on my part was on the "1–30MHz with an initial permeability of between 6 and 10"  and the warning that just ANY other Ferrite may cause problems with the ground balance. If Minelab didn't want anyone sourcing from somewhere else they would not have provided the specs!!

At the end of the day just ANY old Ferrite is NOT suitable for performing a Ferrite balance on a GPZ 7000, it needs to be 1–30MHz with an initial permeability of between 6 and 10 .

22 hours ago, jjbond said:

Sounds like Minelab USA and Minelab Aus and JP (based on the comment JP just made INSISTING you have to buy the Minelab one) all see this differently............

Jen

Jen I'm not insisting anyone buy Minelab, if I was I would not have pointed readers to the KBA where the specs for the Ferrite are spelled out in plain English.

Just another example why I avoid most forums these days.

JP

 

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JP, my curiosity is the why, why that particular frequency and permeability? And I'm not looking for a bs answer like "minelab tested and said so". Something concrete. Maybe its a trade secret, no idea. All I know is the results that I experienced. Time will tell for sure.

I've avoided the forums for years for other reasons (just now posting again recently) but understand where you are coming from. Gotta have a thick skin and learn to deal with the opinions of others (and trolls), right or wrong.

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Hi, I have never posted here, been listening for years.

Here is a supplier for ferrites. I am a ham radio operator and use them all of the.

Have Bruce.

 

 

Palomar EngineersTM | Ferrite Mix Selection Monday, June 9, 14 7:17:07 PM America/Los_Angeles

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Ferrite Mix Selection

Ferrite Mix Selection Guidelines

Quite often we are asked which mix is best for a certain application or frequency range and there is a lot of misinformation on the internet and elsewhere regarding the selection of proper mix for a given application.

What’s Different between Mixes?

The “Mix” is the chemical formula of the iron oxide. Ferrite is a ceramic consisting of iron oxide and generally either of two types:

Manganese-zinc (MnZn) available as Mix #31, and #77 (and others) – work well for common mode chokes
Nickel-Zinc (NiZn) available as Mix #43, #52, #61, #67 (and others) – generally preferred material for baluns/ununs

Palomar Engineers uses mix 31, 43, 52, 61 and 77 for most applications from RFI/EMI common mode suppression, multi-ratio toroid baluns and ununs and sleeve baluns for line isolation. Each mix number has a measurable permeability and suggested frequency range for certain applications.

The table below gives our recommended applications for various mixes and effective frequency ranges

Notes

(1)Mix 31 excellent for 1-10 Mhz common mode suppression, then about same as 43, NOT recommended for multi-ration baluns due to material characteristics and power handling capability – ok for low power ham radio balun applications (<500 watts)

(2) Mix 43 excellent for common mode chokes from 20-250 Mhz, Use Mix 31 below 20 Mhz for higher choking impedance.

(3) Mix 52 good overall use for RFI/EMI from 1-30 Mhz as common mode choke. Also same 250 permeability as many of Jerry Sevick’s (W2FMI) balun designs

(4) Mix 61 will withstand high power in multi ratio (2:1, 4:1, 9:1) baluns/ununs

(5) Mix 77 very useful for RFI/EMI suppression of AM broadcast and 160 meter frequencies, 160 meter to-40 meter baluns/ununs

Download Fair-Rite Material Specifications Sheet for 31, 43, 52, 61, 75, 77 – CLICK HERE
For RFI/EMI suppression remember to select the mix which includes the INTERFERING signal frequency. E.g. if AM broadcast is affecting your 7 Mhz ham receiver, choose mix 77 which is effective at AM broadcast frequency RFI choking. If your 160 meter signal is affecting your DSL or computer try mix 77 (F240-77) on the power line to the effected device as well as the signal

source as the AC line often acts as an “antenna” at these frequencies picking up common mode current.

Mix #

Material

Permeability

RFI/EMI Suppression Range

Tuned Circuits

Baluns

31 (1)

MnZn

1500

1-250 Mhz

< 30 Mhz

1:1 only

43 (2)

NiZn

800

20-250 Mhz

< 30 Mhz

3-60 Mhz

52 (3)

NiZn

250

<500 Mhz

< 10 Mhz

1-60 Mhz

61 (4)

NiZn

125

200-1000 Mhz

<25 Mhz

1-200 Mhz

77 (5)

MnZn

2000

<5 Mhz

.01-5 Mhz

<10 Mhz

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