Shootings in the Arizona Goldfields

[nuggethunting]

Hello Guys,

I heard a .357 Mag can penitrate an engine block, but not certain about going all the way through it. Either way, I don't want to be hit by one ...

Take care,

Rob Allison

[scorpion]

.357's throwing out a 125 grain hot loaded hollow point make a nice small hole going in and a great big hole coming out. It is all about causing as much blood loss, trauma and shock as possible. . The HydraShock doesn't expand very much, but a lot of energy is absorbed. The bullet described just explodes upon entry and big chunks are blown out the other side. The person shot soon expires. Bullet fragments go every where clipping and severing arteries and veins as well as stiking vital organs. Creates a real mess. Not as messy as a AR 15 and 16. Those bullets travel at supersonic and are designed to bump around inside much like a cue ball. I've seen em hit in the right arm and the bullet fragments are found in the left side of the body! Great for what they were designed for..............causing the person shot to bleed out fast!

I run 6 inch barrels on the .357 mags. I'm more comfortable with .357's as I carried them as my duty revolver. My group isn't as tite as it used to be! But then I don't practice every weekend like I used too.

And a .357 will penetrate an engine block, but not go through it. Unless it was a bullet designed to be armor penetrating. Rifling doesn't last long with those type of bullets.

But stating that a .357 mag would go through an engine block does have a lot visual appeal!

[Big Ed]

I carry a Ruger Blackhawk in a western holster, it has 7.5 in barrel and I use 240 hollowpoints.....I can hit a bowling pin at 200yds with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Buzzard, I like the 44 too, I got 29 dirty harry 83/8 in western crossdraw holster, Its taken a few nice bucks and put meat on the table:-)

Take care,

Ed

[eodseal2000]

Good explination Karl

I didn't realize that I wrote that a 357 would go through an engine block...what I meant was to penetrate an engine block.

If you don't shoot as well as you use to, do what I did and get a Crimson Laser!

I've suggested it to several fellow groups and they love them.

My wife shoots my 357 with 38's more than I do, can't get her to put it down.

My buddy Big Ed sounds like Dirty Harry!

[MrSandsman]

A 44 Mag will not even go all the way threw an engin block. I have shot many engin with all kinds of calibers and it takes a 454 or larger to go all the way threw and even then most of the time it does not .

If you are trying to stop a car a 22 will shoot out the tires it will penetrate the radiator, oil cooler and if all else fails it will shoot threw the window and hit the driver .

Another thing to think about is a 44 mag with all its power does nothing if you cant shoot well with it. I rather someone who can shoot with a 22 and hit what they are shooting at rather than a person who makes a lot of noise with a larg caliber but can't hit the side of a barn.

Happy Hunting,

MrSandsman

[whats4supper]

Mr Kowalski (wasn't that the name in big hollywood movie or TV show?):

It all depends on the type of round. Though I don't think a 44 or a 357 would penetrate, there were available a few options that could really mess one up. I also shot a 58 caliber minnie ball once that hit a cast iron block from the side (straight six) that had exit holes on the other side.

Pre 911, you could go to a gun show and get uranium bullets, teflon coated armor piercing rounds, phoshorus tips for 357, 45, 44, and a 223, and others; some explosive tips even. Great if you're a good shot. If you weren't, the SKS and cheap ammo would get people out of range quick- dead or alive.

There are other mechanics related to shaped charges and thermit, but that is out of reach for most here, but then, that has to be planted on the side or structure in order to get a neat 6" dia hole, sometimes 7 feet or so deep.

So to get back on target, suffice to suggest that EODSEAL was really talking about block[heads], and none of those would be difficult to aerate with the rounds discussed.

[scorpion]

Hi eodseal2000!

Do ya think we can get Ed to say, "Do you feel lucky, Punk? Well do ya?"

Clint Eastwood is who I want to go up to be when ever I decide to grow up! And that won't be for a long long time! I'm gonna be 9 forever!

Man I wish that were true! Being 52 sucks! Knees are gone, back comes and go's, I don't see as good as I used too and the hi frequencies are going to hell in a hand basket and I can't run ........knees hurt too much!

So for those times .....if I am ever attacked. I'll just have to be able to stand up to what ever beating they think they can deliver and out last them and beat the crap out of them. Some of them are goin to go to the hosipital! One of the reasons I have kept my tae kwon do skills up and also teach 80 students at the YMCA near the house......................they keep me on my toes. I can't run from an encounter ...........I have to neutralize the threat by using what ever force necessary and reasonable.

And remember those words if you ever have to defend yourself in court!

Always state: I use the minimal amount of reasonable force needed to neutralize the threat!

Regardless of how much force you actually used! Keep you as the victim and not have the tables turned on you and you become the attacker!

Cause you don't want to say, " Yea! I kicked his ass!" And the guy marches into the court room on a gurney with his arms and legs in traction! Unless he fell down a flight of stairs, or a mountain, or down a stream bank, or mine shaft or threw himself under the tires of my jeep.

Of course one dead center of the chest and he won't be walking much less being wheeled into court!

I have thought about a laser sight and I can see the benefits of using them! I'd rather spend the money on another coil. When I get so bad that I can't keep my group any tighter than the size of my fist at 75 feet! I'll cut the barrel on my shotgun down to 20 inches, take the plug out and load it with magnum buckshot!

We never worried about punching through the block. Shooting for the car soft parts works better. You hit the oil pan or transmission pan and the car will stop. Or the gas tank!!

There is just something about a big caliber bore, or the sound that a pump shotgun makes when shell is jacked. The big bore gets even bigger when you are staring down it and the shotgun slide will quiet even the most malicious crowd!

When I teach Self Defense, I try to impress upon my students that the majority of bad situations can be avoided if they just become more aware of their surrondings. And be able to recognize the danger signs and don't become a victim by looking like a victim! And if trouble comes a knockin.....fight until you are safe using what ever means necessary!

And remember this! Don't yell for help.....no one will care nor will they lift a finger!

Instead, yell FIRE!

People will come for miles around to watch a fire. Hell they'll bring out the beer, chips and hot dogs!

Gott run!

See ya Eodseal2000 I'll have to check out the Crimson Laser!

[zbrik]

I haven't had any serious problems but I do dislike being told to leave an area by an armed nobody who I doubt has any rights or authority to tell me what I can do. While discussing a recent experience with a friend he suggested a disposable camera and get the guys picture and ask for an ID. This will not work in any desparate situation but, There may be a place for it in my experiance. Treat them to the same courtesy you give a goverment man, ie Name , title, what law does he think he is enforcing, etc. and get his picture. This will not work if the guy has a gun in his hand, but if he is attempting intimidationit may. Hal

[eodseal2000]

I think we got a little off track from what Rob was asking, but thats ok.

The point I would like to make is to be safe, be aware of your surrondings and trust no one.

You must protect yourself and your family.

You are too late when you say "If I was carrying, this would never have happened"

And remember most of all "Dead men tell no tales"

Take care everyone and be safe, take a buddy along.

[FlakMagnet]

"I try to impress upon my students the majority of bad situations can be avoided if they just become more aware of their surroundings. And be able to recognize the danger signs and don't become a victim by looking like a victim!"

Scorpion,

Those are words that could save lives.

A great quotable quote.

regards,

[just-john]

Armor penetrating rounds won't damage rifleing the penatrator is in the nose or tip of the bullet it doesn't touch the rifleing.now steel jacked the cheap import kind will.The hard part of shooting throught an engine block is getting the guy to open the hood.It's very hard from the front first theres the grill/ac radiator/cooling radiator/fan/water pump/then the block.from the side fender inner and outer/manifold and a lot of other stuff to get through.Not saying it can't be done just hard.And from the rear well you go to jail

Have 4 =550B 1=XL650 1 RL1050 3 SDB

LOAD 9MM-38SPL 357MAG 357SIG 40SW 44MAG 223REM 22-250 REM 6MM REM 308WIN 6.5X55SWEDE 303BRIT 4570 762X54 RUSSIAN ECT ECT

[scorpion]

Thank you for the Kudo's FlakMagnet!

Good points also Just-John!

I lhave the RL550B press also. Load .38 special, .357 mag, ..357 Sig, .40 cal and .45 cal.

I almost bought the XL650 press because of the Auto Case Loader option, but now the 550 has an Case autoloader. Just- John have you heard any reviews on the 550 Auto Case loader? I really like the Dillon Precision Calander and the monthly Magazine.

I forgot that the penatrator it is only in the tips that are hardened except for the steel jacketed in regards to the rifling. It is amazing what our government can do with spent fuel rods!

Sounds like a lot of us do reloading as well.

I guess we are all kindred spirits on more fronts than just prospecting!

[buzzard]

I reload also, 44mag, 9mm , 357/38 , 380 , 30/30 , 45acp , and 7.62x39.

I use a Lee 1000 progressive and a lee turret press. I am also a Gunsmith.

I usually carry either my .44mag or my 9mm when I am out prospecting, the only time I felt I needed it was when I was getting gas at Kingman, a guy cut me off as I pulled into the station then jumped out of his truck ,reached in the back and picked up a ball bat and headed towards my truck. I got out and happened to have my .44 in a western holster on , he saw the pistol looked at me ,then threw the bat into the back of his truck and sped away......a older man pumping gas next to me commented, "just like a fool to bring a bat to a gun fight." he never said anything else. I pumped my gas and went out prospecting.

I hope it never comes to having to use it but I do have it case.............

[eodseal2000]

Some research results on the 357:

I have a good friend who is alive today because of his use of a .357 (the gun was given to him by Elmer Keith) on a VC who had homemade armor. The VC shot several men in the compound and was not stopped until my friend got his .357 going. They found later the Viet Cong had metal plates tied in front and on his back. The .45 ACP did not penetrate, but the .357 made holes in and out!

[whats4supper]

If you can gather photographic evidence or other important info, do be discreet about it as it can seriously inflame an already tough situation.

Diffuse the situation and get to safe ground, then work out the details. use your head and eyes to recon the situation, and as soon as it is reasonably safe, pull out a notepad and write it all down as notes.

While the law will side with you over personal defense issues, provided you are in imminent danger, there may be some problem if you knowingly placed yourself in that same situation and did not use common sense or other means.

Just like those same tree-hugging bunch that have infiltrated the BLM, forest rangers, park ranger crowds; in local law enforcement there are those who will side with your view of the matter and those who will not. Even in town, you are pretty much your own protector, and things happen right now that you have to deal with, not when a cop gets there. Many times, all a cop can do is pick up the body or photograph the scene. With problems in the outback, you're looking at 1 hour or more wait times, so it is up to you to use your wits and find the best way out.

This includes scoping out an area before parking and getting out. Pay attention to whom is watching whom. Some criminals are deliberate in their plan, but most incidences happen as a random act- sort of like impulse buying. You have to take into account that people taking their drugs may be out of their head and not thinking straight. Add some of the fringe groups that look for an out of the way place to gather and coming across someone infiltrating their camp is as un-nerving to them as it is to you. Take into account the number of people, and plan a mental or physical escape route.

The best route is to know your limits and not to get into such a situation if it can be avoided. The next best thing is to get to a safe zone and call in BLM or Law Enforcement to handle or investigate the problem. If you have to shoot, allow one shot as a warning, and then if still pursued, aim to kill.

No one wants to kill, at least those of regular christian values out trying to enjoy the un-urban settings, but you aren't setting the scenario. It's even more ugly to try to reason your way out, then get jumped, beat up, raped, or held for torture, or get killed in the end. Like hammers in construction- each works better with some nails than others to drive them home, your gun needs to have the variables you need to protect yourself.

Your gun should be light enough that you can carry around with you in unsecured areas, but heavy enough to do the job. You should practice using it enough so that you know its limits, and can develop good aim. I would recommend a personal firearm (as in pistol) for use in the field, and a backup firearm (such as a rifle or shotgun) that will aid in retreat or long distance accuracy. If you load a shotgun, perhaps it should have a sequence such as BB, then 00, then a slug.

Unfortunately, a firearm is now a neccessary part of your field first aid kit, as are a pair of decent binoculars.

If you don't need it or have to use it, count your good blessings. But when you need that stuff, baby you need it real bad!

[scorpion]

That is right on target!

[MT-AZ-HP]

Howdy All I cary a 45 ACP Springfeild Auto In a custom Pancake holster when detecting alone in back country I also have a 44 Mag Ruger Blackhawk. I hunted deer and elk with my 44 mag in Montana and have taken My last 16 Whitetail Deer and three elk with it. I shot all of the deer from 60to 100yds. The elk were taken at 140, 155, and 175 Yds. I shot IHMSA Pistol for 6Yrs. For Alaska bear countryI like shoulder sling 12 Ga. W/ pistol grip because of the close ranre in brush country. I hope I never have to use any firearm on the two legged critters that threaten Me, but it is nice to have good protection if needed. Take care in the feild Harry

[paratrooper]

A girl I knew back in TX gave me a ride to somewhere I don't remember . She needed something out of the glove box . When I opened it to get whatever it was there was a pistol right there . I said "What would happen if you get caught with this ?" She said "It's better to get caught with it than without it."

[jjbond]

This is an old thread but I found it interesting and thought I'd add my .02 worth, especially in light of all the crazies I saw up at Bumble Bee last weekend shooting full auto and whooping and yelling.

I just clip my Glock onto my harness (this was my GPX harness but the same works fine on the Zed harness). This particular holsters a bit large as it's a large frame gun (Glock 23C) with a tactical light/laser so bigger than most. It's  pain sometimes but there are just too many crazies out there these days and if you're swinging a multi thousand dollar detector and alone... well better to be prepared.

Jennifer

Edited November 18, 2017 by jjbond

[roadapple]

 Nice carry piece .... Much better to be safe than sorry !   And yes there are crazy people that need to be in check ! Never go without one .

[adam]

 Dont forget the Spot Messenger System, and a pick hanging from a metal belt loop.

Edited November 20, 2017 by adam

[Tortuga]

Didn’t realize there was so much crazy stuff going on around Bumblebee over the years 

[1Boeing737]

I hunt gold,  plus I hunt quail. Best eating bird on the planet. I believe I read on a previous post that someone could have been hunting quail with high caliber rifles. That is news to me, cause I never heard of it.  It is quail hunting season, and I have hunted for quail in the bumblebee/cleator area many times.  Good topo and habitat area for the gambel quail.

 My point is, consider also what is going to be happening a time of year without getting skiddish, and to concerned thereby, drawing  into other conclusions, and making a big mistake. That happens a lot these days. We all know that misuse  leads to disuse, and unfortunately, our society has evolved itself more toward looking for excuses to further erode traditional freedoms and heritages without looking at a bigger picture.  That's what is happening with the ever increasing litigation, and score boards of today, proving the ever increasing constant battles we have of our freedoms being targeted. Like I said, misuse also means disuse.  It's called the cause and effect of the problems being solved which lead to forfeiture.  I never thought I would see in my life time, what I see happening today. If I could look into a crystal ball and see the next 10 years ahead, I believe I would pass on looking through it.  

  If law ever needs a excuse to shut down a party, cause of a lethal event, they will build their case to justify the actions. 

  I have been shot from a distance with #8 bird shot accidently by a friend both of us chasing quail. It stung like crazy, but I didn't die. A High caliper rifle on the other hand would be a different story. 

 

 

[jjbond]

2 minutes ago, 1Boeing737 said:

I hunt gold,  plus I hunt quail. Best eating bird on the planet. I believe I read on a previous post that someone could have been hunting quail with high caliber rifles. That is news to me, cause I never heard of it.  It is quail hunting season, and I have hunted for quail in the bumblebee/cleator area many times.  Good topo and habitat area for the gambel quail.

 My point is, consider also what is going to be happening a time of year without getting skiddish, and to concerned thereby, drawing  into other conclusions, and making a big mistake. That happens a lot these days. We all know that misuse  leads to disuse, and unfortunately, our society has evolved itself more toward looking for excuses to further erode traditional freedoms and heritages without looking at a bigger picture.  That's what is happening with the ever increasing litigation, and score boards of today, proving the ever increasing constant battles we have of our freedoms being targeted. Like I said, misuse also means disuse.  It's called the cause and effect of the problems being solved which lead to forfeiture.  I never thought I would see in my life time, what I see happening today. If I could look into a crystal ball and see the next 10 years ahead, I believe I would pass on looking through it.  

  If law ever needs a excuse to shut down a party, cause of a lethal event, they will build their case to justify the actions. 

  I have been shot from a distance with #8 bird shot accidently by a friend both of us chasing quail. It stung like crazy, but I didn't die. A High caliper rifle on the other hand would be a different story. 

 

 

Are you former Boeing or are you a pilot, just curious, I worked for the Lazy B 7 times, mainly Renton, Bellevue, DCAC/MRM etc.

Jen

[jjbond]

It's not just the weekend warriors from Phoenix that like to spray and pray like I ran into at Bumble Bee we have to watch out for.... link below.. be careful out there. 

http://komonews.com/news/nation-world/hunter-mistakes-woman-for-deer-shoots-and-kills-her-11-24-2017