An Inconvient Truth

[FlakMagnet]

I know this is not a forum for anything other than hunting for, and discussing, gold.

I also realize this is a captive audience

and for that reason, perhaps it is not popular to talk about things

most of us would rather keep personal.

I am hoping the intent behind this post is worth the risk of violating that premise.

If you are not planning - for whatever reason - to see "An Inconvient Truth",

please consider changing your mind and going see what it has to say.

If not for yourself, for your children and your grandchildren.

This is far beyond political, and quite probably the most important topic

we will all have to deal with (very soon), in our lifetimes.

with respect,

[Frosty]

Hey Flak,

Excuse my ignorance but I have no clue what it's about been out of circulation for awhile.

Keep on beeping - Frosty

[FlakMagnet]

Frosty,

I am lothe to talk too much about it for fear of being taken as political.

All I will say is, this is 'way beyond politics.

It's about our lives.

You can find out about it on the net.

It is a documentary film about a slide show presentation

that has been given all over the world by Al Gore.

(Please don't flinch at the name, it's not about names at this point

this is worthy and important to learn about -

imho, of course).

Glad you are back Frosty,

best wishes,

[Frosty]

Thanks Flak, I'll check it out. Anymore about wickieup in the works or rumor?

Keep on beeping - Frosty

[grubstake]

Hi! David I would have to think its the one he is promoting about GLOBAL WARMING. I saw some clips, very interesting, and this is the hottest we have been in I think they said 500 years. But I may be wrong on that. Its a 110 up here today, so I know its hotter than it has been since 1989, thats when I moved here. It has been that hot, but not this early in the year. Grubstake

[FlakMagnet]

Nothing at all,

but,

I will say, am looking forward to the fall.

I'll bet it jumps back to the top of the posts then.

best,

[FlakMagnet]

Grubstake,

It is an electrifying presentation.

I rarely rattle about stuff like this,

but this film leaves me very little doubt that we are in huge

(and for our kids, potentially fatal), trouble

if we continue

to do nothing...

best wishes,

[grubstake]

Yes David, when you see the polar Ice caps melting, and they say the sea will rise, flooding out millions of coatal cities, it makes you think for sure. Grubstake

[FlakMagnet]

Gary,

I saw the film last night.

When the lights went up,

noone said a word, they just got up and walked out.

Serious stuff,

BUT -

ALL the solutions are there. It is not undoable,

we just have to do it, and that's the problem,

getting people to wake up enough to ACT on the reality.

(fingers crossed for our kid's sake),

as always,

best wishes,

[29prospector]

Gary,

I saw the film last night.

When the lights went up,

noone said a word, they just got up and walked out.

Serious stuff,

BUT -

ALL the solutions are there. It is not undoable,

we just have to do it, and that's the problem,

getting people to wake up enough to ACT on the reality.

(fingers crossed for our kid's sake),

as always,

best wishes,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

David,

Like always you have a most humble way of stating you point. I also believe that the film should be seen by all. This affects our ability to prospect, which is a hobby that teaches many principals of conservation. My wish would be that everyone who see this film, will do 1 small thing to help out.

Bob

[BIGFOOT]

Flak & Others,

Flak I will probly go out see this movie as well...just to see if its a factual/scientificaly done flick...(and NO!I'm not "attacking"you here)The big picture at stake?IE:How do our volcanoes influence the atmosphere?Do aviation fuels that (IMO) are being DIRECTLY injected into the upper reaches without having a chance to properly disapate or dilute have any impact of concern?

People "should" try to follow the money trail on this subject/movie.THIS country more than other countrys have been(purposely) making crappy cars,bad easily broken products,has the largest and worst record when it comes to customer service,enviromental hazards......just plain ol sloppy lazy ignorance that TRULY doesnt care about the earth....for one reason ,MONEY!Ask all the BOOOMING and increasingly profiting Enviromental BabySitting(protecting)Companys about it.The more any one company in the U.S. screews up...makes a mess...the more money is being spent on reclamation(or clean ups).In other words this has given birth to one of the largest & profitting industries......The "You Better Clean That OR PAY US NOT TO THROW YOU INTO JAIL " Industry!

MORE JOB security for a sloppy country....We even like to make foriegn messes to!So "we" have clean ups to do world wide....world wide gauranteed "Messy Income"....because we have the best "Or we will throw you into the U.N. Pressure Cooker" technology to clean up these........"messes".Ask a war veteran how this country makes its moneys?Most of them will tell ya....No WAR,No Money!(DUH)

Plus.....our weather monitoring only goes back...what....200 years?(not including the oldest weather documentor the "BristleCone PineTree").....point being we will ALWAYS have ups & downs regarding climatic changes.This includes temperatures,heat waves,droughts and Ice Ages.The media in the last few years has been putting a CRISIS emphasis on everything.........and they(and the fine "folks" who RUNS the media)are bettin that with LARGE AMOUNTS OF FEAR INDUCING AND UNSUBSTANTIATED(a long factually documented unbiased study of weather/climatic changes)INFO that the masses will BUY INTO IT AS TRUTH....for more money to be spent on this new INDUSTRY.......but first they gotta get ya to feel guilty first by slowly deliberately brainwashing ya with Enviro Ads for several years....like theyve been doing.Whats the newest HIP thing to help the guilty ones FEEL BETTER ABOUT THEMSELVES?"A recent Harvard Study found that by giving your dogs "Beano" tablets in thier food cuts back on canine flactuance which harms the OZONE Layer thats been disapearing at a alarming rate.(Does anyone address a volcanoes role in all this?You can bet the EPA IS STILL trying to get money out that "situation" to!)

I know this is a hot topic.........but remember what to do when the Enviromental Pigs outlaw prospecting......................KEEP DIGGING!Oh yeah.......for those of you that REALLY CARE about Ol Mom Nature.......REMIND YOURSELF NOT TO CONSUME ANYMORE NATURAL RESOURCES AND WALK TO WORK!

BIGFOOT

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi,

Global warming is an absolute fact. Why is this news? I learned about it in high school historical geology class.

The major "Nebraskan" glacial age, that occured about a million years ago, was followed by a warm interglacial age that lasted well over 100,000 years. This was followed by the "Kansan" glacial age followed by another long warm interglacial age that lasted about 300,000 years which was followed by the "Illinoian" glacial age. At the present time the planet seems to still be coming out of the latest "Wisconsin" glacial age into another stable warm interglacial age that may last for 100,00 years or more. The glaciers seen here in Alaska today are remnants of a general ice advance -- the Little Ice Age -- that began about 4,000 years ago. This advance in no way approached the extent of continental glaciation during Pleistocene time. The Little Ice age reached its maximum extent here about 1750, when general melting began.

I've spent my whole life looking at the results of retreating glacial ice. My home town of Anchorage, Alaska was under a couple thousand feet of ice at the peak of the last glacial advance. The ice started retreating a long time before the insignificant creature called man could have an impact.

Global warming is part of a natural cycle that has been going on for millions of years. There is absolutely nothing that anybody is ever going to do to stop it. You may as well try and stop the earth from going around the sun.

The ONLY thing open for debate right now is whether or not our activities are doing anything that is adding to global warming. It is certainly possible. But 30 years ago it was just as big a deal that the glacial cycle might reverse, bringing a return of the glaciers. Scientists seem to be just as prone to fads as the rest of us.

The only constant in the world is change. We do not live on a planet where everything stays the same. Forests burn, species come and species go... and planetary temperatures rise and fall with time. They always have and always will. The coal we mine today is the product of times when this planets was a steaming hothouse. We may be warmer now than anytime since the last glacial retreat began, but we are nowhere near as warm as the planet has been at other times in the past. The film seeks to ignore all but the time frame they need to choose to prove their case. Which is that everything is your fault.

This actually is all gold related. Gold in my neck of the woods is directly deposits by processes revolving around glacial retreat. Where the gold is and is not is directly related to where the ice was and was not in the last 100,000 years. See http://instaar.colorado.edu/QGISL/ak_paleo...lery/index.html for maps of max ice extent in Alaska during the last glacial age. At the same time frame glaciers reached as far south as Illinois. The richest gold areas are those that did not see recent glaciation and so erosion processes have continued for a longer period of time, allowing rich placer deposits to build. Gold placers near Anchorage are poor because they have only accumulated since the last glacial retreat. Crow Creek near Anchorage is an exception noted in literature as a preserved pre-glacial deposit. Interior Alaska has such good placers since many areas did not see glacial ice in the last ice age.

Steve Herschbach

[BIGFOOT]

SteveH.,

Looong time no hello!Anyways you said "The film seeks to ignore all but the time frame they need to choose to prove their case. Which is that everything is your fault." This fits my "trying to make YOU(everyone)feel GUILTY" theory that preps people for the big finacial screw.I have not seen the movie...but have been aware of detrimental impacts on the prospecting world for a long time.

.......I just wonder if people actually wake up to the fact that they are actually USING UP MORE RESOURCES by trying save resources.This is the equivalant of the wife driving 60 miles to CutCo. becaus the products total costs are saving her about $2.34........but I'm the one filling(paying)her tank.Its costing $44.00 to save $2.34!

Common sense is the endangered species.

BIGFOOT

[Lotsa Luck]

Hi,

Global warming is an absolute fact. Why is this news? I learned about it in high school historical geology class.

The major "Nebraskan" glacial age, that occured about a million years ago, was followed by a warm interglacial age that lasted well over 100,000 years. This was followed by the "Kansan" glacial age followed by another long warm interglacial age that lasted about 300,000 years which was followed by the "Illinoian" glacial age. At the present time the planet seems to still be coming out of the latest "Wisconsin" glacial age into another stable warm interglacial age that may last for 100,00 years or more. The glaciers seen here in Alaska today are remnants of a general ice advance -- the Little Ice Age -- that began about 4,000 years ago. This advance in no way approached the extent of continental glaciation during Pleistocene time. The Little Ice age reached its maximum extent here about 1750, when general melting began.

I've spent my whole life looking at the results of retreating glacial ice. My home town of Anchorage, Alaska was under a couple thousand feet of ice at the peak of the last glacial advance. The ice started retreating a long time before the insignificant creature called man could have an impact.

Global warming is part of a natural cycle that has been going on for millions of years. There is absolutely nothing that anybody is ever going to do to stop it. You may as well try and stop the earth from going around the sun.

The ONLY thing open for debate right now is whether or not our activities are doing anything that is adding to global warming. It is certainly possible. But 30 years ago it was just as big a deal that the glacial cycle might reverse, bringing a return of the glaciers. Scientists seem to be just as prone to fads as the rest of us.

The only constant in the world is change. We do not live on a planet where everything stays the same. Forests burn, species come and species go... and planetary temperatures rise and fall with time. They always have and always will. The coal we mine today is the product of times when this planets was a steaming hothouse. We may be warmer now than anytime since the last glacial retreat began, but we are nowhere near as warm as the planet has been at other times in the past. The film seeks to ignore all but the time frame they need to choose to prove their case. Which is that everything is your fault.

This actually is all gold related. Gold in my neck of the woods is directly deposits by processes revolving around glacial retreat. Where the gold is and is not is directly related to where the ice was and was not in the last 100,000 years. See http://instaar.colorado.edu/QGISL/ak_paleo...lery/index.html for maps of max ice extent in Alaska during the last glacial age. At the same time frame glaciers reached as far south as Illinois. The richest gold areas are those that did not see recent glaciation and so erosion processes have continued for a longer period of time, allowing rich placer deposits to build. Gold placers near Anchorage are poor because they have only accumulated since the last glacial retreat. Crow Creek near Anchorage is an exception noted in literature as a preserved pre-glacial deposit. Interior Alaska has such good placers since many areas did not see glacial ice in the last ice age.

Steve Herschbach

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very well said and right on target.

[paratrooper]

I'm still wondering how that Mammoth (big elephant) froze in Mongolia 40,000 years ago . Did he sleep for 20 years (Rip Van Jumbo) ? We have had big events here that cover millions of years . I saw the bedrock in the desert that stood almost straight up from (?) an earthquake . Have we seen that in our recorded history ? Those that talk about what we are/not doing are looking at the last 2 seconds of a 24 hour day and trying to say what will happen next . This is commonly referred to as "junk science". That is to say that they have an answer they wish to prove . Soooo they take all the info and disregard any data that does not lead to the answer they have already chosen . Al Gore has nothing except his name to trade on . He was never a success at anything . He even dropped out of the Seminary . He flunked GOD !!! If this piece of slanted info were made by someone that has had 4 failed businesses it would all be on the cutting room floor . Perhaps he wants to be Michael Moore when he grows up .

[FlakMagnet]

Steve H. and others,

I will only reiterate a heartfelt request.

It will stand on it's own merit.

We, all of us, owe it not only to ourselves,

but to our kids,

to at least avail ourselves to what this film lays out.

The biggest hurdle to overcoming global warming?

People who will not,

for whatever the reasons may be,

look at the problem.

While I agree with Steve that we all have known about global warming for many years,

I would add this - the rates of change have altered dramatically.

I will only suggest that you forget what you think you know, for an hour and a half,

and re-examine the problem.

Then make up your mind.

Not the other way around.

4/4 "In 39 years, I have never written these words in a movie review, but here they are: You owe it to yourself to see this film. If you do not, and you have grandchildren, you should explain to them why you decided not to."

-- David Denby, NEW YORKER

(From his review of "An Inconvenient Truth")

with respect,

[wyndham]

I did not create God, He created me, and the rest of us & the stuff called the universe. Can we destroy the earth, yep, will we, ask God. 100 yrs from now each one of us will have met with our Creator and know more then than now, encluding what's His plan. Just wait.

Wyndham

[Jeff Bucher]

Flak and others,

I've never met a rich person that didn't think the average guy should covserve more. I'll be nice to Algore by saying, he can't help it. He has had too endure a life of privilege, supported by big oil and tobacco. No wonder he feels so much guilt.

I think we should all work together in an effort to slow down or stop the solar sun spots. From what I read they are the chief cause of climate changes here on earth. We could meet in Sedona Az..

Well said Steve, the earth is in a constant state of change. Junk science to fit a political agenda is not the answer. Take some time and research both sides of this issue. Don't rely just on the facts in one movie/side show. I mean slide show. There is a world of valid science out there that says, "man" is not responsible for any warming taking place.

Bigfoot is also quite right by saying,"follow the money."

Just my thoughts, Jeff

[FlakMagnet]

Hi Jeff,

Yes, this is the pretty much the opinion that one could expect to hear.

I felt the same way for a long time.

With all the opinions that you voice, is it possible there is more to it?

Jeff, what if there is?

And we don't learn about it

until it's too late.

I'm just saying right now, it's not too late.

best wishes,

[Corben]

Wait a minute. Didn't we just read somewhere that the worlds crude oil supplies are drying up fast? Seems that the number one cause of the greenhouse effect will be a thing of the past anyway for the average person. Problem solved.

[Uncle Ron]

Yo All...Last week I tuned in to a discussion on, I think, CNN...They were interviewing a scientist who coldly refuted every single point made in the Mike Moore (OOPS) Gore film with fact...Gore has basically taken geohistory out of context to support his next bid for office...His entire "Global Warming" schtick comes from a high school lecture he listened to in his sophomore year, according to his explanation on the Late Night David Letterman show a few days ago...One of the points the scientist made was that if everyone who is able to see the movie, saw it and responded exactly the way Gore suggests, it would not make a 1/10th of one degree difference, unless he translates the movie to Chinese, Indian and a few other languages where the folks are so stressed to put food on the table today, that they don't give a rat's ass about next year, global warming or anything else...Oh well, politics and politicians--especially our pal AL--suck...

\Rant'n Roll Cheers, Unc

[FlakMagnet]

A good point Corbin.

That might be a partial solution to the problem.

It would be cool to have it be that easy.

And right up our alley, then we wouldn't have to do anything...

That's what most people seem most comfortable with.

Hi Uncle Ron,

One of the things that I found interesting about the film was

that Gore has taken this side show all over the world.

His visits to China were particularly interesting.

Again, it might be helpful to get past the "politic's" angle

which tends to polarize and helps us lose sight of what it is we're talking about.

It's about all of us, everywhere.

One of the issues brought out was the fabled 20 foot rise in sea level

would result in something like 100 million refugees from the inundated areas worldwide,

surprisingly, many from China which has huge population areas that would disappear.

After watching the mis-handling of Katrina's refugee's - quite small on the scale noted above,

that issue alone was fairly stark.

best wishes,

[whats4supper]

at the risk of redundancy, we on earth neither manufacture nor destroy carbon or any other gas or element. These products are in a constant shift between being a deposit to being a gas or a compound in transition. Oil was once a plant in a very warm climate. where frost zones are now (Siberia, Antarctica, NW Territories, Greenland) the land was once tropical and temperate climate and eco-systems. (Old maps show the landforms that once existed under the ice sheets).

Ozone, the demon gas, occurs as a catalyst to control smog and smoke, as well as to filter out UV rays, ionization, and radiation from outer space. Poisons on our planet are made from compounds and sources found here, though perhaps concentrated through modern process and technology.

The problem is that with any concentration of consumed goods and refined products, the Earth shifts and climates adjust- use and consume on a natural level. unbridled population, gasoline and fuel usage, garbage, a/c on all the time (heat exchangers), all cause an imbalance. Hook up with destruction of green areas and dumping in the oceans, and man, informed or not, sets up a scenario from which there is no return because no civilization will go backwards to eras of inconvenience and reduced consumption. Chances are, that even if such were possible, the natural turnaround would take a thousand years or more before any change of note would occur.

Without getting involved with religion too much, in the final days all the animals will die off, the oceans will be a rancid sewer, and the rain will cease to fall from the sky. Those left to flounder, will burn; either from actual flameover of the carbonaceous plants, or from a climatological heat of a hotter clime and atmosphere. Besides natural calamity, people in search of their wants will be out killing others in order to eat or just to get some drinking water.

If that isn't enough, Geologists like Velivskowsy (1957?), laughed at and ridiculed concerning his theories about pole shifts and axis tilts, or magnetic field strength or weaknesses, and other natural calamities, has been vindicated by the various earth scientists that have confirmed those facts. As a matter of fact, our magnetic field is currently about 60% strength of what it was, and there are signs that it reverses itself on a regular basis. Perhaps the one man who truly understood the whole scenario, Tesla, is now dead and 85% of his notes, held in a Belgrade shrine and museum, were bombed and burned during the croation/serbian civil war.

Then you have all the religious jihads and wars, genocide, civil wars, of people in a technological age that, no matter what, absolutely refuse to get along.

The end of this essay also includes historical data that a nuclear holocaust already occurred roughly 7000-9000 years ago, and that we inhabitants on earth now, are descendant of those survivors. The perpetrators of the last nuke war are the same ones we're dealing with again: Hindus, Iran, Iraq regions, as several archaeologists have uncovered in those areas, underneath all the ruins, a layer of fused glassy sands, that can only be produced by a nuclear explosion, and compare in form and density to that of the above ground blast zones in New Mexico & Nevada.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and that God would've created a life form so problematic sort of defies comprehension. If you read the works of Zitchin, God was really a set of aliens from the 12th panet in our solar system that needed someone to work as a miner.

Now, before I spark outrage and name calling, understand that mathmeticians of old were far more accurate in their calculations, and there is really no way of every knowing the absolute truth about the world until you die and visit the celestial archive library. There are so many twists and turns in mortal philosophy, a religious debate, that the actual truth of the matter may be beyond means of location.

If you believe in the bible- old and new testaments, you have to realize that it's writings were not made specifically for a bible, but were manuscripts rounded up from all over and published as a central encyclopedia. Translations, from one language to another, always include generalizations, and not neccesarily precise terminology, as tradeoffs and slang is always used in any translation- scripture or otherwise. Zitchin pointed out a few verses that make absolute sense based on his observations and research, and make no sense based on the status quo interpretation.

Just like gold mining, using a detector, or anything else, information and knowledge broadens your horizons, and leads one to a catalog of variables that can reasonbly be used to identify the target. Rather than be closed minded, open up and see the possibilities. You don't have to make everything you read your own philosophy or creed, but as a person, you are truly an individual that compliments all others, and places you in a position to contribute something of a positive note to society and the world. Not that we are likely to escape the heat.

Exciting times, but peace and world unity are, for the most part, something of the past until something beyond our power changes that

[seeker]

I can't remember a summer here as cold as this one, now we are past the equinox and it is down hill from here, about 55 outside now and I do have my furnace on as it is downright cold... The weather is not constant it is constantly changing, the old timers will tell you just how much some of the glaciers have retreated in the past 50 yrs and I don't think that is alarming as that has been going on now for hundreds of years.. I do think taht eventually there will be more people of this planet then it will support and to me that poses the real danger. I won't be around to witness this... Geo

[eodseal2000]

All I can say is don't trust what the goverment says.

The Goverment trys to steer you away from the truth.

The news media is a puppet, the goverment uses the media to report on what they want them to report on...an escape goat.

I remember in the Mid 1980's there was a country ( I think Ireland, correct me if I'm wrong) that had constant bombings..."Black Sunday" anyway the goverment got pissed at the news media constantly reporting on the bombings so made a new law that there was to be no reporting on any more bombings...there was one more bombing, then nothing ever again, no more propaganda...no bombing.

Global Warming is upon us, we must do somthing now!

Polar bears being sighted in Canada?

It's 114 deg here now, breaking records.

I am a wildland firefighter and I am really thinking of a new occupation!