False Signals


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Ok, so Im figuring out all the "ins and outs" of the detecting world. Ive experianced something strange out in the Mojave, I would hear these very faint and iffy signals very simialler to hot ground, but after reground balancing, the "ghost signal" would still be there. After digging the target, or at least trying, I would uncover a nest of those tiny red fire ants! :o Now I would back off from these nasty little cridders to reacess the situation :blink: did I really want to dig more and risk ruining the day :blink: ah no i didnt <_< I had found one of these nests before and did manage to finish my dig and recover nothing!!!!!!!!!!! :unsure: yah you know I was tap dancing while looking through the pile of dirt for what wasnt there :D

I just wanted to know if any one else has come across this????????????????????

I was using a gp3000, coiltek mini ufo(mono)

:lol: it always seemed like these fireants are the keepers of gold :lol:

thanks airboy

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Hello Airboy,

I can't say exactly what it was, but have seen and heard similar deals. Sometimes little critters and insects like to carry small bits of metal into their nests. Now whether this was the case with you, I can't honestly say. I also know that some roots and plants that hold a higher content of iron can also give you weak signals. It could also be the fact there is a depression or void in the ground where the ants are living.

Very hard to say exactly, but I know I have experienced similar signals over the years, but never really took the time to figure out exactly what it could be.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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I think that what you detected was the electronic waves they use to communicate with each other . I've been told that they have a sort of liquid layer or trail that they spread as they move . Kinda like The Borg on Star Trek . They have a collective mind . When one finds something he can tell all the others . It seems that when they get on someone they wait for a signal so they can all bite at once .

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I have had simular experiences.

What I think is that the machine is picking up the urine or salt content of the ants.

Simular to detectors picking up the salt in our bodies when you wave your hand over the coil.

Somthing to consider: I have found nuggies in ant nests before.

If you pass up the faint target in the nest, how many other people before you did the same?

Kind of like someone digging a bullet then walking off searching without rechecking their hole, they had multiple targets, dug the bullet, but not the nugget or more bullets. :huh:

ALan

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Hello Alan,

I know the VLF detectors will give you a signal over your hand or body, but not certain the Minelab PI's will. I never experienced the PI giving a signal over my hand, but maybe you have more salt, iron or gold in your blood! :P

Now you wouldn't destroy an ant nest for a small gold nugget would you? :rolleyes:

Talk with you soon,

Rob Allison

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I cant say for sure on the PI units but as far as what produces weak signals produced on the VLF's(I have a "tweaked" WhitesGM2 and a LoboST)I've noticed not only a difference in mineralization,hot rocks,negative rocks,different layers of different compositions will make weak signals but also moisture.This includes a underlying layer of wet soil as well as plants,plant roots...anything loaded with water and/or moisture surrounded by dry constituents that the machine has already balanced itself(or manualy balanced)or tuned into.Insects are loaded(not intoxicated)with moisture and if a web of plant roots will sound so would a network of red ants.

BIGFOOT

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I have had similar false signals. I think it is from the holes in the ground, when the machine is expecting to find mineral to balance out, there is none, and then suddenly there is soil again with mineral and the difference makes the detector sound off. I have had the same thing with roots and also have been nearly fooled with the target being just to the side of the hole, or tiny multiple targets. A magnetic rake or something to pick up the bits of iron can help that. With biting insects you don't have much time to figure what the target is. I usually will let that go and move onto an easier target unless you are sure you got something worthwhile. :rolleyes:

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I always figured the detector was sounding off on the calcium in your bones since it is a metal. Guess that was a misconception, I imagine the detector wouldn't sound off on a damp bone.

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Here's a thought, as you all know, "black sand" is heavier than normal sand and for the most part finer than mush of the surrounding soil. Perhaps the ants are choosing to move the lighter (numerically) particles to the surface and leaving the heavier, finer and more mineralized bits underground causing the md's to sound off due to the concentration of those mineralized particles...perhaps?

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Hey Rob

I had to think for a minute, but your right, I have Gold pulsing through my veins. :huh:

Yor right, the VLF does pick up salt in your body, I don't think the P.I. will...

Does this meen that "PISS ANTS" will be detected easier by a VLF than "FIRE ANTS"? :blink:

I believe the Root theory also, I have found these and Airplanes?...Every once in awhile my 3000 acted up, like it was drifting...someone told me it was airplanes. :o

If airplanes do cause erratic behavior in a P.I., how about UFO's? <_<

Has anyone detected near Roswell?

ALan

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Hello Airboy

I was serious about the airplanes, a veteran nugget shooter told me this...I don't know if it's true or not.

Here in Calif, we have a termendous ammount of highly mineralized ground. Most Hydraulic mines are situated in the Hot Red Clay, magnitite everywhere.

For theVLF It is very common to have a faint signal, dig, then the signal disappears...this is a pocket of mineralized soil.

Some hunters who have been at it for years can tell the difference between a faint target and faint mineralized pocket...there is no sweet signal....the pockets tend to be in more than place (drifting), but it takes awhile to know the machine and gain the confidence when to dig or not.

I have discovered this: When near a creek or river, I have had faint signals and when I dug them, they would disappear or I would find a very small flake of gold, wondering how a P.I. could have picked this up...I then panned out the rest of the pocket and would find 3-5 small flakes...when the flakes are together it made a faint signal large enough for the P.I. to pick up, but when seperated, too small for the P.I. to pick up.

A friend of mine found a 1 1/2 lb nugget that had many a coil pass over it....why? because it sounded like a beer can! It was almost the size of one and sounded like one so the veteran hunters thought it was too loud and big to be a nugget! He even proved this to me.

Take Care and Happy Hunting.

Alan

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Hello Guys,

There is no doubt Airplanes cause disturbance on the Minelab PI's. I believe it has more to do with the Airplane's Radar then the actual Airplane itself. There are times when it's tough to hunt the Bradshaw Mountain Range. During the weekends its plane after plane ... WoWoo .. WooWoo .. WooWooo ... :(

Digging false targets is not real common with the Minelab PI's, but it does happen. Certain ground conditions, or mineralized pockets can affect a Minelab PI. However, if it will affect a Minelab PI just imagine a VLF. :huh:

For the most part a Minelab PI is immune to most ground conditions if balanced properly.

From my own personal experience (over 15+ years nuggetshooting) you don't want to put a whole lot of faith in target response. I have found some very sizeable nuggets over the years that aren't the typical soft, smooth sounding "Gold" targets. When in doubt dig everything even if it means more trash. :o

As you can see from Alan's post, for years nuggetshooters left a 1.5 pound nugget laying on or near the surface assuming it was a trash target.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Hi Rob,

You can generate false signals from a person's hand on both a VLF or a PI if the shielding isn't absolutely sufficient. The mechanism that causes the false signals is usually the capacitance effect between the hand and the coil and not the "minerals" in the hand. Usually, this signal is quite weak, but if the shielding is not working well at all, then the signal can be much stronger.

So, this condition could appear worse with some coils than with others.

Reg

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eodseal2000,

:) I believe you about aircraft interferience, I've noticed this myself!!!!!!!!!! I just thought it was funny that roswell was mentioned again!!!! :D I posted the Roswell (UFO) post to get some one to talk to me, well I guess it worked because it went through the roof. I was very exited to be part of the forum.. thank you very much for this FORUM its helped me out more than I thought it could, and Ive allready met people through it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D THANKS ROB FOR THE GREAT FORUM B)

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Dear group;

In mineralized ground, ants will cause a weak signal as will tree roots, etc. The cause for this phenomenom is quite simple, really, if you stop and think about it for a while. For example, your detector is perfectcly ground balanced and just a hum-hum-humming along, when all of the sudden the soil becomes saturated with with tiny air pockets (the myriad of tunnels that the ants make underground). What happens? The mineralization content of the soil lessens (due to the air from the tunnels) and the the g/b gets thrown off slightly and you will get a return signal! The same thing happens with tree roots as well. You are in highly mineralized ground and all of the sudden the mineralization disappears (wherever the root is located at) and you will receive a return signal. The higher the mineralization content of the surrounding matrix, the more noticeable the audible return is whenever that matrix is abruptly interrupted. In very mild ground, ant colonies don't sound off because the detector can't sense a mineralization shift. Roots don't affect the g/b in theses circumstances either. I happened to discover this when I *detected* a glass beer bottle in heavy mineralization one day. The bottle sounded off and I recovered it, then I started wondering how a beer bottle, which is made from almost pure silica, can cause my detector to sound off, so I took it home with me. I re-buried it the backyard and then tried detecting it and I couldn't get a return signal to save my life. So, I took the same bottle back to the same area where I had detected it in, along with several different bottle types, and I couldn't detect any of them, because I had messed up the mineral matrix by digging the holes and then refilling them. But I then detected two more bottles and a sealed empty jar, so i knew that it had something to do with the mineral makeup of the terrain. Further experimentation has led me to arrive at this theory.

Airplanes which are equipped with a transponder (a device which, when coupled to the aircrafts' altimeter, transmits a signal to the control tower and puts the aircrafts position on it's screen, along with altitude, heading and current speed) will cause a PI detector to go nuts and planes equipped with weather radar units REALLY cause PI detectors to go nuts. Onborad crash avoidance systems cause the same problems as weather radars do. Small aircraft which are only VFR rated (visual flight rules) generally don't cause my detectors any trouble.

Your friend;

LAMAR

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Thanks for the reply Lamar.

I was hoping you would chime in on this topic.

You always have great scientific data to bring us to light and you always explain it in a "very easy to understand way".

I enjoy reading your findings and scientific analysis and look forward to reading your next post.

You have brang me to light many times and I appreciate your input.

Thanks again.

Alan

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Hello Reg, Lamar and all others,

Great subject we have going here. Over the years I have had a lot of strange things sound off on the VLF and even PI's. If my detector sounds off on a strange rock or something I can't identify in the field I will bring it back home with me. Most of the stuff I can get examine in the field and toss it back as a Leaverite.

I know over the years I have gotten weak signals on cactus roots, tree roots, pockets of mineralization and other stuff that just seems to disappear or stay at the constant weak signal the deeper you dig.

One rule that I use is the fact a true metallic target will increase in audio the closer you get to it. Meaning if you continue to dig and the target response continues to get louder, assuming you're ground balanced properly then I will continue to dig and extract the target.

If you continue to dig and the response don't get louder than you probably just have pocket of mineralization and you're probably out of ground balance. One solution is to balance your searchcoil over the material that has been removed from the hole. If you balance over the pile and continue to get a signal I would say DIG!

Hope this helps a bit,

Rob Allison

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