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Hello Grubstake,

I see both sides of gold going up. Great for the people wanting to sale, but sucks for the people wanting to prospecting and enjoy the hobby. Here in Arizona there are groups that are claiming anything that is even remotely near a goldfield. Some are claiming miles and miles away from any known gold. Makes is hard to enough the hobby when you have tons of nuts just claiming anything and selling them to people back East that don't have a clue if gold was found there or not.

There are two big groups here in Arizona that are advertising & selling "worthless" mineral claims. I've watch some of the history and they are selling them. I couldn't sleep at night knowing I was taking advantage of these people!

Also done some research and found out they are taking advantage of the system. They are using the "associated placer" gig and only filing on the claims if they get a potential buyer.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Hello All,

I know this might sound silly, but I wish gold was around $300/ounce. Back when the price of gold was low, most had no interests to chase it. I don't chase gold for the value, but rather the adventure and thrill of the kill. Price of gold high = more nuts and less places to hunt! :(

Take care,

Rob Allison

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True... gold is "going up." It took a record jump in 1934 when it "went-up"

to 35/troy-oz and the USA govenment made it illegal to have gold coinage. But actually

the USA dollar was devaluated so it now took $35 to buy it at the earlier pre-depression

value of $20.67.

Gold will likely climb to a record figure as the USA dollar buying power declines. The

USA dollar began to weaken internationally about 2003. It is now coming close to

hitting a record low against the 13-nation eruro currancy. Specifically, is now nearly

at a 26-year low against the British pound..

It has been reported by Robert Brown (the chief investment officer officer at

Glenworth Financial Management), that since 2002 the USA dollar has

fallen more than 50% since its October 2000 trading peak against the euro.

A gallon of gas now is about $3.25 where I live. My old truck gives only about

8-miles to the gallon. The Randsburg/El Paso gold fields are about 100 miles

north of me. About 24 gallons round trip... And I must confess I do not find enough

gold to buy enough gas to even drive out of my driveway.

As Rob has posted above, as far as gold, the same shennanigans he mentions

are also happening wherever placer or hardrock gold is found. Also, I agree with Rob

about $300 gold (and also I wish gas back about $1.00 to go with $300 gold.)

With the weaker dollar Americas overseas purchasing power is obvously weaker. This

could boost the sales of USA made products. and likely the stock market will become

a bull market.

A mixed bag... However, how many of us have a large horde of gold to win out against

inflation?. Not me... If I did I would sell it fast and buy a good producing oil well.

A few years ago, anyone could go to Follow's Camp above Azuza and dredge or

drywash. Not anymore. With the dollar weaker against the euro; foreign

purchases of USA property will also likely increase. As just one example...the afore

mentioned Follow's camp now belongs to foreign buyers. Thus, foreign buyers cold buy

choice property such as lake fronts and recreational areas.

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gold is the only stable money there is. $682 may sound like a lot, but the buying power of a $50 bill now, is equal to what $6.82 would buy back in 1970. Access to gold is limited.

I can only wonder what is driving the surge in price.

as for Copper, brass, and Aluminum, China is taking all the scrap they can get, the reason that a vacant house gets stripped of copper wire and pipe. no streetlight is safe, and not even a wind generator. Copper is running $4+ per pound in LA, brass at $2.82, and all sorts of other goods bring a crankhead some good money. There's a certain vag under a local overpass that works on computer gold, and he says he gets over $500 for recovered gold and copper, that used to bring in only $72 for the same amount of effort.

the whole deal of paper cash is ruining all of us. the only guarantee we all have is that money issued by the government will lose value.

Inflation: You never had it so good, and it never went so fast!

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I'm not agreeing here at all.

I hope gold goes though the roof.Nothing would make me happier!!

Rob don't you sale mining equipment?If gold hit $4000.00 an once you would not be able to keep the people supplied with equipment.You would make a killing wouldn't you?

As to the claiming of land.What I think they need to do is only allow each miner one claimAnd you would have to show a certan amount of work done on the claim a year or you would lose it.

In the long run this gives us as miners a better chance. It centers you on one project. You wouldn't have land that you were holding and not working.

I see what Rob is saying some of these guys claim the whole dam county up. Then they waste all of there time trying to keep poeple off insted of mining.

I do live in California and I don't see a problem with finding a place to go yet.

Maybe in Arizona it is getting hard to find a place?

Rob you can allways come to California I know some places to go!

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the problem in california....

or colorado, or oregon, or anyplace else, is having to trespass on someone's claim because claim holders aren't so much filing to open up a hole, but to impede anyone else from making a big find which will ruin their own little shangrila, which means heavy equipment, noise, dust, neighbors, destruction of the view, timber or riparian loss, water usage issues, land damage, and a host of ills.

Though you may not be an actual miner, the fact that you are out prospecting by using a detector will lump you into the same category, and lay your hide wide open to the same fines that a dredger or drywasher has to go through. Even now, most fed agenciesw require posting of a bond if land disturbance is more that 1 acres per year; which includes a campsite, equipment area, water use, wildlife hindrance, and a host of other issues important to the tree hugger crowd. One bane of popular use is the obstruction of new or existing roads, which means walk in only, maybe a horse, but certainly no motorcycle, atv, 4x4, dunebuggy, nor scooter. could also include use of a generator or any sort of engine powered contraption to open up the hole.

Popular areas with the treehuggers, get the attention of Nature's Conservancy, which comes in and effectively buys out all private inholdings, and then shuts the door to other buffer areas. I already went a few rounds somewhere down the thread, with the CDFG over wanting to disturb a previously mined area in Mono County to simply test the dredge piles. As most anything connected with a waterway in some for or another impacts fish and game, it is harder to get out of the gunsights of some environmental group that takes notes of someone tracking in, which includes dredging, but also silt disturbance by means of a terrorist action otherwise known as digging a hole, and placing the excavated dirt adjacent to the pit. Not only would someone have to backfill the hole with the excavated dirt, but all the plants, rocks, and surface details usually have to be restored to the condition it was in, before the first swing of a pick disturbed it.

Going into a mining area does not relieve one of responsibility to either restore disturbed ground, nor of any liability stemming from disturbing old mining waste (the mine dump) that could cause runoff metal toxins to affect adjacent property.

When gold isn't worth much, governments aren't justified in spending lots of time and money to protect those environments, but when activity greatly increases, so do hires in police agencies, and once an area comes into focus from those agencies, I don't think things would ever return to what it once was, not even in 3 lifetimes.

What some people are getting into here is that we are still relatively free to come and go in some really decent places that have potential. Once the government gets involved with something out of necessity of controlling crowds, everyone loses... Don't think so? Just how public are public lands from your viewpoint, compared with the veiwpoint of a park ranger or BLM manager? Public lands aren't for the public, though some access has to be conceded. the real idea of public lands is to keep the public out of them. If that doesn't work, then the endangered species act takes over and really works its hex aginst the public, mor in your case, the miner- no matter that you really aren't a bonafide miner, you just hold an instrument that detects metal. It detects metal, you dig a hole, that makes you a miner and an offender. no matter that the hole is with a screwdriver, your hand, or a garden trowel...

AS FOR YOUR LAST TENET:

"As to the claiming of land.What I think they need to do is only allow each miner one claimAnd you would have to show a certan amount of work done on the claim a year or you would lose it.

In the long run this gives us as miners a better chance. It centers you on one project. You wouldn't have land that you were holding and not working.

I see what Rob is saying some of these guys claim the whole dam county up. Then they waste all of there time trying to keep poeple off insted of mining."

People claim a mining claim for various reasons: a vacation spot, a campsite, and place to build a cabin, rights to make a road into the forest, maybe even a simple placer or lode claim, seasonal work at best, or to get the best of a land developer getting ready to deveop an area and get payoff rights. The Mining Claim by definition, is the right for someone to mine a specific mineral deposit, that would turn a profit in today's actual market. Mind you, not all minerals but specific ones declared to the oversight federal agency.

If you have an active placer claim, if some mining outfit can show prudent reason to believe there is a vein under or within your placer claim, they can stake right over your claim, and you become subservient to those holding the lode claim. Orientation of lode claims can really make this hit work out in their favor.

Recreational claims really don't hold water under 1872 mining law, but because the BLM gets annual fees from these groups, they let things slide, and let people have their spot. Besides, club claims tend to have a more responsible crowd. But anyone can have a claim, and the BLM willingly will take fees from anyone that files a claim, even ones above the xisting valid claims of prior claimants. I have a few claim in Meadview, valid since 1979, and last year, while researching something at the BLM Kingman office, found 7 layers of claims above me, on the same coordinates.

I asked the BLM guy about this, and he simply stated that if the claim really was legit as a commercially viable mining claim, the original claimant (in this case. ME) would litigate the other claimants to settle differences, using my own money. As for BLM expenditures, they would go after all claimants for land damage issues if such parties were found to be negigible in mitigating specific incidents. in this case, it would be a 8-way spread in court.

The BLM makes out great with the existing system, and I highly doubt they would work to alleviate this sort of cash cow.

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I'll tell you Whats4supper-Venison steak and eggs.

If you have a claim with 7 claims filed on top of you.You must have a good one!!

As for working it only you only have the right.I have seen this happen only once on a hardrock claim the people that had the claim started mining it and the others let ther claims drop.

You see they claimed it becuse there was good gold on it and if you would of let it drop the next one in line would hold the claim.I'm not sure if this is leagel tough.

As to placer claims you made a very good statement you can claim over a placer claim with a lode claim but not the other way around. At lest I know that is how it is in California.All I can say is it is up to you on this one.

Later,Matt

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Hello Matt and All,

I guess I need to be more specific on why I don't like the price of gold where it's at now.

Claims - Back in the early to mid 90's gold was $250-$280 per Troy Ounce. Most of all the good hunting locations were open, most had no interests in claims or mining or prospecting for gold. When the price of gold gets high, you get everyone in their Brother thinking they can make a quick buck searching for gold. Now with the use of the Internet and websites like Ebay, you have many trying to claim and sell everything they can.

Passion to Hunt Gold - I never started chasing gold for the money value, but rather the adventure and thrill of the kill. I've always had the "Rockhound" in me since I was a young boy. I love the outdoors and enjoy being out there every moment I can. Prospecting for gold is a way I can "Free" my mind from the daily working stress.

Selling Prospecting Accessories - I would be stupid to say I started "Rob's Detector Sales" not to make any money. I have a passion for prospecting and thought it would be great trying to run a small business doing something you really enjoy. If I really had to make a living selling prospecting gear, I would probably be living in 1-bedroom apartment hoping to make my next meal. This business is very competitive and can be a "doggy-dog" world.

I don't like telling customers what they want to hear, but rather the real facts. I could probably increase my sales 25-40% if I really BSed all the customers and told them gold was just lying out in the hills and all you needed was a good metal detector.

When the price of gold increases, more and more dealers think they can make "big money." Just like guys selling claims on Ebay, new dealers think they can find the "Mother Lode" selling prospecting items.

Would I sell more if the price of gold was $4,000? Yes and No. If the price of gold was $4,000, most wouldn't have many spots to prospect. I actually sold more detectors with the price of gold lower cause more areas were open to prospect.

I love running the business cause over the years I have met some great people and formed some great friendships. However, if I never sold another prospecting item it wouldn't effect me financially one bit.

P.S. Oh, forgot to add there are more nuts in the goldfields when the price of gold is high. I’ve recently heard of two shootings here in Arizona over gold. Gold is not worth anyone’s life, nor is even thinking about pulling a gun on someone in the goldfields.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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NO MATT (well, i guess the gold is pretty decent on my claims) but it is more of scarcity in finding a place to mine than what used to be the case. As in most of AZ, and the other western states, the US Gov gave many odd numbered sections to any railroad crossing the territory, and as such, these parcels were not open to fed mining claims, but rather, were considered private land, bought and sold as any other land, except these also came with water and mineral rights.

In meadview, and points beyond, a lot of that land (which was really decent gold country besides) was open to anybody working something, just short of a commercial gig. The Santa Fe didn't much care. But they sold off some parcels to interested parties.

Later on, as the Fisher MD groups came out to hunt gold and test their rigs, word got out about the really sizeable gold in the area, and with snowbirds, and more detectorists, it was only a matter of time until some bloke bought up the acreage and chased everyone else off and out.

On my claims, I cannot keep stakes on location. everyone comes out and wants firewood, pipe with holes in it, or t-rail. The BLM doesn't want to fight any more wars than it has to, and claimant rights are left up to mostly the claimant that wants to fight, and dealings with the local sheriff's office. As I don't live out there anywhere near, it's hard to keep up with the Jones, and educate people about my rights. I did try that once, but it sets up retaliation, nails in the roads and trails, and other chicanery. After a few runins with scoflaws, espescially after I already lit the fuze, a little flyrock persuaded a few to cut me some leg room and give me respect. However, those guys are in jail, and new people arrive everyday that see the big open, and thinks it's theirs.

Probably no difrent for those with claims around quartzite and earp.

So best, it is a recreational holding at best, I adopted the live and let live attitude, though, if push comes to shove, My push is a really big one and I have the papers to prove it.

The other factor in the claiming problem is that the legal post changes, and the BLM and others, regularly clean off an area, getting rid of corner posts violating their codes. Of course, this is a real stick problem, rather than around an area where there are people watching everything. Rangers don't like witnesses either.

In AZ, if one can back up their claims, all it takes is a visit by the local deputy in tow, and the offender can lose their vehicle and everything in it, on a first offense. there are a few snotnoses out there that can only learn from this type of lesson, but most of the ones I find on my claims are simply out looking and don't really have a clue about anything. I would rather be a friend than an adam henry (AH- get it? A-sH-le), besides maybe I'll need them someday too.

ROB has made some very good comments about the whole enchilada!!!!

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I must come clean about the high price of gold you see that is how I have made my liveing until 2004.

I will be getting back to doing it soon.

I own a hardrock mine and I have to have claims around it to keep the drifts in my posesion.

I'm not saying that your opinion is wrong.It is just not what I want to see happen.The higher the price of gold. The better off me and my family will be.

I hope you can see it my way also.

I don't like to see claim jumping happen or hygrading for that matter.

I think I have been lucky becuse my mine is on privte property.

I'm lucky enough that there is alot of trees around that I can hide game cameras in when I'm going to be gone.

It sounds like you guys in AZ have it ruff. That sucks.

Thanks for your opinion,Matt

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the edge you have is the land is private property and no longer in Fed domain.

With the land grabs, perhaps you should investigate the county assessor's office for similar patent lands (converted mining claims) in arrears. A lot of these are up for quarterly, semi-annual, and annual auction; usually for the price of 3 years property taxes.

as the usual lode claim is about 20.33 acres, in a rural area, these can be a real bargain. unlike fed mining claims, you CAN put up a fence and gate; build a house or vacation retreat; subdivide or sell off unwanted parcels; put in an RV park or anything else that local county zoning allows; and mine or not mine, at your whimsy. no more fees to the BLM, however the exchange for that freedom is now you have to pay property taxes.

If, at the time of patenting, contingient mining claims were also part of the deal, so a particular mineral patent could include multiples of claims for roughly the same cost. after a mining claim is patented, and the land converts to private status, one doesn't have to use it as for mining at all.

as an added bonus, many mining patents are located within national parks, forests, national monuments or lake areas, and regardless of what a ranger says, it is your land and does not belong to the feds nor is controlled by such. One of the worst infractions comitted by feds and rangers towards the regular citizen, is the spread of misinformation; much of which stems from an ignorant (as opposed to an informed) public official.

It pays to gain some knowledge in this area, because without it, you'll end up being the one needlessly manipulated. Nothing gets the goat of a ranger or BLM operative worse than for them to have to concede that "you were right" and they were wrong.

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This is one of the best threads I have read for a very long time.

Lest we all forget, most people here are not full time professional miners. Myself, I am a serious small scale miner and my business depends on my mining results. The 1872 Mining Law was written for mining. If one could not hold many claims, then the large scale mining companies could not conduct business. Small scale miners and (I hate to use the term) recreational miners are lucky to be able to operate under the umbrella of the current mining laws.

When I took up metal detecting, it was for fun and fun only. I never expected to be able to supply my jewelry needs by detecting. Most people that detect do it for fun, as a hobby. They are really not miners per say. At least that is the way I see it, I certainly may be wrong but doubt it. Most detectorist are actually recreational miners. I sold my detector and have given up beeping becaust the fun is gone where I live. However, I still work my placer claims as a serious small scale mining venue. I hold 3 claims, one I only prospect and do assesment work on and it is a reserve for me if I need it. One I will work full time in the summer dredging season and the other, is held by me because of the potential for lots of gold but it would require large investment in equipmnet and crew. It is also adjacent to a 40 acre patent I own, and if and when the moratorium were to be lifted I would like to add to my patent.

The one thing we all have in common is an enemy that is getting strong enough to change or eliminate the 1872 mining law. Tea is the green environmental movement that is part of the left wing political movement.

We in this "mining" community should not compalin about our own, but better watch out for thos that can and are trying very hard to take it all away!

Just my 2 cents

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