Whites new PI

[Ridge Runner]

At the GPAA gold show today I was looking for Randy Smith a Whites Distributor for Texas and States east.

What I did find was Jim McColluch Running a booth for Randy.

I ask Jim about the new Whites PI and when it would be out plus about the cost of this PI.At this time he was looking to receive one again maybe in two weeks.His thinking was it would be a prototype.I ask when will we see it on the market and the only thing he said was soon, real soon.

He said the sensitivity he understands on small gold is good if not better than the GMT.I've never had a GMT in my hands so maybe someone can help us on the GMT part.

Now one of the other things we all want to know is the price.This reply was in the range of one thousand five hundred but not more than eighteen.

I know I've said alot of words but said little.

One other thing that was said by a dealer that Whites were going to up grade the MXT and DFX and he said this when I ask if he knew anything about the new PI.He didn't know a thing about the new PI but only the DFX and MXT.

Chuck Anders

[oakwoodcutter]

At the GPAA gold show today I was looking for Randy Smith a Whites Distributor for Texas and States east.

What I did find was Jim McColluch Running a booth for Randy.

I ask Jim about the new Whites PI and when it would be out plus about the cost of this PI.At this time he was looking to receive one again maybe in two weeks.His thinking was it would be a prototype.I ask when will we see it on the market and the only thing he said was soon, real soon.

He said the sensitivity he understands on small gold is good if not better than the GMT.I've never had a GMT in my hands so maybe someone can help us on the GMT part.

Now one of the other things we all want to know is the price.This reply was in the range of one thousand five hundred but not more than eighteen.

I know I've said alot of words but said little.

One other thing that was said by a dealer that Whites were going to up grade the MXT and DFX and he said this when I ask if he knew anything about the new PI.He didn't know a thing about the new PI but only the DFX and MXT.

Chuck Anders

do you think it will have extra and smooth timings...any info on the batteries

[Ridge Runner]

Oakwoodcutter

Jim was there just to talk up Whites and he didn't spend alot of time with anyone,so to ans. your question he said nothing about that.

Again when I ask how long, his thinking was this month but he also said Whites wanted to make sure they had it right before it hits the market.

Chuck Anders

[grubstake]

You guys are funny! I had one in my hand, I wish I could tell you about the whites, but I promised Digger Bob not too. On the other hand, a lot of people are going to be happy with what they are. But they will not replace the Minelabs, but do have a place in between the VLF's and the minelabs. Which will be good for all in the nugget hunting hobby. Grubstake

[Ridge Runner]

Grubstake

I guess your right,I'm funny tring to second guess what these Whites people are telling me.You lucky guy you had one in your hot little hands.Now over time we will all know what was right and what was wrong.

Chuck

[grubstake]

Well Chuck, its not going to beat the minelabs, but I think it has a place in the market, and I think people will be surprised at the performance and capability of the detector. Just think about a detector, thats better than the Whites GMT and Gold bug, but not as capable as the 4000, manual ground balance, and price wise a lot cheaper, and will use all the coil made for the minelabs. But like I said, I wouldn't get rid of you minelab, but it will fill a nitch. Grubstake

[Steve Herschbach]

"He said the sensitivity he understands on small gold is good if not better than the GMT"

Not going to happen. Not even close. I can hit gold weighing less than 1/10th of a grain (not gram) with a GMT. The new unit will not match that, let alone supass the GMT for small gold sensitivity.

The MXT300 and DFX300 are already out. Same machines, new coil.

Steve Herschbach

[cougar jim]

"He said the sensitivity he understands on small gold is good if not better than the GMT"

You are right Steve, Not going to happen.

In fact I have a GM3 the sensitivity will not touch.

I just hope the sensitivity will at least match the MXT.

[oakwoodcutter]

Oakwoodcutter

Jim was there just to talk up Whites and he didn't spend alot of time with anyone,so to ans. your question he said nothing about that.

Again when I ask how long, his thinking was this month but he also said Whites wanted to make sure they had it right before it hits the market.

Chuck Anders

ok just curious....what do you think about smooth and extra on the 4000.....

[Reg]

Hi Chuck,

Are you sure the Whites guy didn't say the sensitivity would be close to the MXT for sensitivity to small gold? I suspect he was getting his info second or third hand and this is what he meant. I have a modified GS 5 which will come close if not beat the MXT while maintaining the PI qualities of ignoring hotrocks, black sand, etc and it will do this while remaining extremely quiet in most locations. Mine won't beat the GMT, but I will put it up against the MXT.

Hi Oakwoodcutter,

Unless Whites makes some really strange changes, all modes on Whites new detector should be as quiet as the smooth mode on the 4000.

The new Whites PI gets its base design from the GS 5, which does not suffer from external noise from sources such as sun spots, aircraft noise, power line noise, etc, etc. Even UFO air craft has little effect as best as I can tell. After all some supposedly have been spotted in the AZ skies and I have never experienced any strange negative external noise problems when I have been down there.

I can hunt directly below power lines at full sensitivity or any other adjustment and not experience any interference signals. I have not experienced hot day air current noises, or noises from regular fences. I have gotten noise pulses from distant lightening strikes or keying a two way radio next to the control box, so it is not totally immune.

Now, if you want to also minimize the signals from all basalt or similar hotrocks on the GS 5, simply adjust the ground balance a little farther and that even basalt will be a non issue. At least, that is how it is on my modded GS 5.

The difference on the GS 5 is I can make all my adjustments with just a few simple controls. If I want to chase flyspeck gold, I just reduce the delay. If I want to ignore it, I increase the delay a little. As GMT owners know, the ability to detect flyspeck gold also will cause the detector to detect most everything else flyspeck. The same holds true for a PI that can detect the extremely small stuff. The big difference, is I don't have to turn the sensitivity down to ignore the flyspeck stuff.

I have no idea of what Whites will use for a battery. I do know I can use a lightweight Li Ion battery on my unit but I will have to change the battery before the day is over, if I hunt most of the day. If I use the heavier NiMH battery I can hunt all day. If I had to guess, I would guess Whites may go with the Li Ion but use a little heavier one that I use, so it lasts longer. I have not tried some of the latest design Li ion types, which could allow a longer run time without adding much more weight.

Now, I have yet to find a place where I felt that I needed a form of auto ground balance either. This will surprise most people when they try it because once the ground balance is set, there will be little or no need to adjust it again, except for maybe trying to compensate for some of the strange basalt in limited areas. In most locations, this is a total non issue.

Reg

[Ridge Runner]

Reg

Jim may have been meaning the MXT but I'm sure he said GMT.Now at the same time he had not had one himself but said he was getting one soon.

I could be wrong but I can't remember when that was. I hope your right that they will have a battery that will last the better part of a day.If it can use coiltek and nugget finder coils it will be a great plus.

Thanks for your post!

Chuck Anders

[Reg]

Hi Chuck,

I didn't realize when I first read your earlier post the guy making the statement wasn't a Whites rep. That makes more sense. I am fairly confident he got the two detectors mixed up.

Now, as for coils, I would guess Whites would make it possible to use ML and ML third party coils just like the GS 5 can. It would be totally illogical to do any different. So, my guess is you don't have to worry about the coil issue.

One thing that should keep in mind is that, if the Whites unit will detect smaller gold than the ML's, then it is done by using a shorter delay. With a shorter delay, there is a limit as to the size of the coil that will work at that particular delay. I suspect that size will be somewhere around 11" to 12".

So, if you want to use a much bigger coil, you will most likely have to turn the delay up some before the larger coil will work normally. This is normal on all PI's that have the ability to operate at very short delays.

In other words, you will be able to use all sizes of coils, but not at the setting that can detect the flyspecks. Instead, you will have to settle for grainers or a little larger.

Reg

[Uncle Ron]

Reg...What about comparison to depth between the Whites PI and the SD/GP series??? Cheers, Unc

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi Ron,

I do not think anybody is going to be ditching their SD or GP in favor of the White's unit except perhaps for ergonomic reasons. This really is not going to be a Minelab versus White's battle. In my opinion the White's unit will simply fill a niche of it's own.

To put it another way, I'll keep using my SD2200v2 and the latest GPX model. But I'm also chomping to get my hands on the new White's unit also. It is a bird of a different feather.

Steve Herschbach

[frank c]

Steve, I've been following all this for many moons, hoping Whites would be the leader in new "land based"

P.I. (nugget detectors) (GOD BLESS THE USA.....Again I hope !!!)

My biggest concern is like Uncle Rons ....How much better depth detection will it offer compared to a GMT (vlf) and also in relation to the 2000-2100-2200 (P.I.'s) ?????????????

I used a 2100 untill I grew tired of the weight factor,cords and extra large batt, then went to the GMT and havent looked back.

I hunt in an area with red hard packed clay type material with decomposed granet/and quartz and without streching the truth I have hit tiny nuggets at 6-10 inches, just a break in the thesh. untill scraping off some of the top layer then a better signal but never the less the GMT picked up a signal.

I wonder if any of the persons involved have actually done a side by side comparison ??

Not nessessarilly a tightly controlled exacting test procedure, just a fairly quick comparison to say the GMT and a 21-2200 or gpx to know HOW IT ACTS IN RELATION TO THE VLF AN PI's FOR DEPTH OF SIGNAL RECIEVED.???????

I hope it does'nt turn out to be a BUY IT AND TRY IT Situation Maybe someone can give an opinion who has had the oppertunity to try them out.

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi Frank,

Well, a couple things.

First, no prototype tester is ever going to make those kinds of direct comparisons on an unfinished product in public. Not if they ever plan on testing other units in the future. I recommend you wait for the finished product to hit. Then wait for reports from sources you feel you can trust.

I can say that as a ground balancing PI unit the new White's PI will easily outperform VLF units IN EXTREMELY MINERALIZED GROUND.

Which is part two. Performance is very ground dependent. PI units have only minimal depth advantages over VLF units in low mineral ground. As ground conditions and hot rocks worsen, ground balancing PI units fare better and better as compared to their VLF cousins.

So hearing a report from a person on their ground A means little if you spend all your time detecting in ground B. That does sometimes mean you really do have to try a unit to see how it does in your own location if nobody else does.

Lots of people use Minelab SD/GP units in many very mineralized areas of the world. But in my local Anchorage, Alaska area, where mineral conditions are mild and gold nuggets small, the White's Goldmasters and Fisher Gold Bug 2 reign supreme. At Ganes Creek, Alaska, a White's MXT or X-Terra 70 will run circles around a Minelab SD/GP user. Input from local users about local conditions is priceless. And for my local conditions I expect the new White's to be a very good machine indeed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - most Minelab users are not going to be ditching their SD/GP units in favor of the White's. I can't be any more clear than that. Many may consider getting one to use as an addition to their nugget hunting arsenal, however, for reasons that will be more clear later.

If you are the sort of person who looks at overall value in the form of price, performance, special features, and ergonomics, then I think the White's unit is going to offer a good value that many will appreciate. You gave up your Minelab to use a GMT for specific reasons, so this new machine may very well fit the bill for you.

Just for some clarity - I am a DetectorPro, Garrett, Fisher, Minelab, Tesoro and White's dealer. From a business standpoint I don't care who buys what as I sell them all. I expect to sell lots of Minelabs like I always have, and I expect to sell a pile of these new White's units. One is not going to detract from the other. My enthusiasm for the new White's is quite personal. I know this is the kind of machine that I can use. That sure does not mean anyone should get all excited over it just because I am. People are simply going to have to wait and judge for themselves what value the new unit may hold for them.

I am one of those nuts who like to buy and try. Done it a zillion times. Yeah, it costs me some money, but my detecting more than pays for itself. And compared to what my friends are into (boats, Harley's, snowmobiles, RVs, ATVs, etc) I've got to have one of the cheapest hobbies a guy can have. And one of the only ones that can possibly make a buck. Buy and try is just an investment in my detecting ability.

No machine is perfect at all things. When I detect, I'm looking for any edge I can get. In one place I'll be using a Minelab GPX-4000, in another a White's GMT, and in yet another a Minelab X-Terra 70. People who only hunt one type of place can afford to use only one machine. I've never had that luxury and so I find that I generally need about five or six detectors for what I do. The mix changes but not the overall number of units.

So if the new White's unit can do anything at all that I need better than existing units, then it will serve me well. I already know the answer is yes to that question. But people for whom the Minelab units are doing all they want should just keep using their Minelabs and be happy. I for one really appreciate Minelab and their continuing investment in serving the needs of prospectors around the world.

I'm constantly amazed by those who get upset that Minelab comes out with new units every couple years. What would they prefer? Something like the Garrett Stinger that goes unchanged for decades? We are lucky that Minelab came along and so they have earned the loyalty of a great many prospectors around the world. They have a huge lead in the technology, and I have no doubt they will continue to be a leader in gold prospecting detectors.

Steve Herschbach

[Allen in MT]

Maybe I missed it or it wasn't posted but did whites make the control housing so that it can be hip or chest mounted.

Allen

[oakwoodcutter]

now i see why everything is made in china ya aint gotta wait years for it to hit the showroom...got an idea send it to china..cant beat the service..lol.lol

[Ridge Runner]

Allen

I too believe it said someplace that you are correct on it being versatile.

oakwoodcutter

I'll take American made anyday over one hung low product. I've been using Whites for over 40 years and they have yet put out a bad product and they not about to start now.I don't like the wait! I've email them about putting out a gold PI unit for a long time and now if I have to wait a little longer so be it.

Chuck Anders

[oakwoodcutter]

yes i try buy american made...however its an act of god to try and find something made hear..iam quite surprised that these dtector makers have not moved there buisness to china..its just a matter of time though..being a trucker i haul alot of stuff 100s of loada year and i can tell you ive never hauled anything made in america except apples and pears grapes and oranges..everything comes from some foriegn country...now that the us government is letting the mexican trucker run in the usa its gonna get real bad for everyone hear in the states...

[Digger Bob]

Maybe I missed it or it wasn't posted but did whites make the control housing so that it can be hip or chest mounted.

Allen

Alan, yes it can be chest or hip mounted. I could contribute a lot more to this discussion but I can't. Steve and Reg have covered most of the important bases anyway. Oh, and no, it does not have the sensitivity on flyspeck gold that the Goldmasters have.

Digger Bob

[jyoung65]

Hi Frank,

Well, a couple things.

First, no prototype tester is ever going to make those kinds of direct comparisons on an unfinished product in public. Not if they ever plan on testing other units in the future. I recommend you wait for the finished product to hit. Then wait for reports from sources you feel you can trust.

I can say that as a ground balancing PI unit the new White's PI will easily outperform VLF units IN EXTREMELY MINERALIZED GROUND.

Which is part two. Performance is very ground dependent. PI units have only minimal depth advantages over VLF units in low mineral ground. As ground conditions and hot rocks worsen, ground balancing PI units fare better and better as compared to their VLF cousins.

So hearing a report from a person on their ground A means little if you spend all your time detecting in ground B. That does sometimes mean you really do have to try a unit to see how it does in your own location if nobody else does.

Lots of people use Minelab SD/GP units in many very mineralized areas of the world. But in my local Anchorage, Alaska area, where mineral conditions are mild and gold nuggets small, the White's Goldmasters and Fisher Gold Bug 2 reign supreme. At Ganes Creek, Alaska, a White's MXT or X-Terra 70 will run circles around a Minelab SD/GP user. Input from local users about local conditions is priceless. And for my local conditions I expect the new White's to be a very good machine indeed.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - most Minelab users are not going to be ditching their SD/GP units in favor of the White's. I can't be any more clear than that. Many may consider getting one to use as an addition to their nugget hunting arsenal, however, for reasons that will be more clear later.

If you are the sort of person who looks at overall value in the form of price, performance, special features, and ergonomics, then I think the White's unit is going to offer a good value that many will appreciate. You gave up your Minelab to use a GMT for specific reasons, so this new machine may very well fit the bill for you.

Just for some clarity - I am a DetectorPro, Garrett, Fisher, Minelab, Tesoro and White's dealer. From a business standpoint I don't care who buys what as I sell them all. I expect to sell lots of Minelabs like I always have, and I expect to sell a pile of these new White's units. One is not going to detract from the other. My enthusiasm for the new White's is quite personal. I know this is the kind of machine that I can use. That sure does not mean anyone should get all excited over it just because I am. People are simply going to have to wait and judge for themselves what value the new unit may hold for them.

I am one of those nuts who like to buy and try. Done it a zillion times. Yeah, it costs me some money, but my detecting more than pays for itself. And compared to what my friends are into (boats, Harley's, snowmobiles, RVs, ATVs, etc) I've got to have one of the cheapest hobbies a guy can have. And one of the only ones that can possibly make a buck. Buy and try is just an investment in my detecting ability.

No machine is perfect at all things. When I detect, I'm looking for any edge I can get. In one place I'll be using a Minelab GPX-4000, in another a White's GMT, and in yet another a Minelab X-Terra 70. People who only hunt one type of place can afford to use only one machine. I've never had that luxury and so I find that I generally need about five or six detectors for what I do. The mix changes but not the overall number of units.

So if the new White's unit can do anything at all that I need better than existing units, then it will serve me well. I already know the answer is yes to that question. But people for whom the Minelab units are doing all they want should just keep using their Minelabs and be happy. I for one really appreciate Minelab and their continuing investment in serving the needs of prospectors around the world.

I'm constantly amazed by those who get upset that Minelab comes out with new units every couple years. What would they prefer? Something like the Garrett Stinger that goes unchanged for decades? We are lucky that Minelab came along and so they have earned the loyalty of a great many prospectors around the world. They have a huge lead in the technology, and I have no doubt they will continue to be a leader in gold prospecting detectors.

Steve Herschbach

So Garrett Stinger is no comparison to the othe models you described? Will it at least work well in highly minerlized areas (like southwest NV, east cal)?

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi jyoung,

The Scorpion Gold Stinger is a very old design based on the original 15 kHz Garrett Groundhog. It does ok in areas of uniform mineralization, but in areas with lots of hot rocks it is a pain as in all metal mode it sounds off on the rocks. You can go to disc mode to cut out the rocks, but you will also tune out smaller gold in the process.

A person can certainly find gold with the Stinger but not many these days use it. When is the last time you ever saw anybody on any forum posting about using a Stinger?

My main gripe with the unit is the archaic battery replacement scheme. You actually have to pull the guts out of the unit, and the batteries plug right into the circuit board! Every one else stopped doing that back in the 1970's. The unit is long overdue for a makeover.

Steve Herschbach

[jyoung65]

Hi jyoung,

The Scorpion Gold Stinger is a very old design based on the original 15 kHz Garrett Groundhog. It does ok in areas of uniform mineralization, but in areas with lots of hot rocks it is a pain as in all metal mode it sounds off on the rocks. You can go to disc mode to cut out the rocks, but you will also tune out smaller gold in the process.

A person can certainly find gold with the Stinger but not many these days use it. When is the last time you ever saw anybody on any forum posting about using a Stinger?

My main gripe with the unit is the archaic battery replacement scheme. You actually have to pull the guts out of the unit, and the batteries plug right into the circuit board! Every one else stopped doing that back in the 1970's. The unit is long overdue for a makeover.

Steve Herschbach

Thanks for the quick reply....I don't want to waste my money on a 3 day adventure, but wanted something that I could have some "probable" success. Maybe need to go for it with one of the better models--after all, maybe I will hit a pay streak...if not, at at least I will feel obligated to go again to justify the investment.