" no dredging in california"


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Jawiest and Gary

I won't post it here, it will piss off some people, but there is a much bigger reason for

the way things are now. It's not really about the salmon. I have spent time and talked to people

around Happy Camp. Disrespect!!! Enough said.

Regards

Herb

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If people don't have places to go and enjoy then they need to go back to work and support the over bloated, leach of a government. If they're too old to produce taxes, let them die and get out of the way for more productive slaves.

This is so simple, why fight it, it's for our own good don't you know. :spank: Bad citizens, get back in line, we need more taxes.

I thought I'd be dead before all this came about, shows what you get for thinking. Wyndham

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Hitlers Grandson took over. Grubstake

Grubstake,

Arnold couldn't fight his way out of a paper sack if all 4 corners were torn :wacko: !

I guess the prospectors in California will have to learn to detect more. Never has been nor will it be proven that dredging is harmful to fish. Off shore commercial fisherman prevent migration back from the sea :angry2: , and the Indians - who want their fishing rights - take the rest :angry2: , not dredgers. Ever see an Indian dredging :glare: ? They don't need to cause we frequent their casinos and give em much white man wampum! I'm sure to catch a bunch of hate posts for my comments :spank: .

Now you know why this native son will never return B) .

Thank the new 49ers for this mess too!

h20prospector

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Grubstake,

Arnold couldn't fight his way out of a paper sack if all 4 corners were torn :wacko: !

I guess the prospectors in California will have to learn to detect more. Never has been nor will it be proven that dredging is harmful to fish. Off shore commercial fisherman prevent migration back from the sea :angry2: , and the Indians - who want their fishing rights - take the rest :angry2: , not dredgers. Ever see an Indian dredging :glare: ? They don't need to cause we frequent their casinos and give em much white man wampum! I'm sure to catch a bunch of hate posts for my comments :spank: .

Now you know why this native son will never return B) .

Thank the new 49ers for this mess too!

h20prospector

I AM AN INDIAN, i LOVE PROSPECTING, I HAVE NEVER GOT GAMMING MONEY (MOST INDIANS DONT), AND YOU ARE RACIST JERK!!!....IT'S ONLY 3-4 TRIBES OUT OF CALIFORNIA'S DOZENS OF TRIBES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS DREDGE BAN, AND SOME WERE QUITE UPSET WITH IT...I'M FROM A TRIBE BACK EAST, WE PUT GREAT VALUE ON WAMPUM, DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IT IS? IT'S NOT MONEY, H20PROSPECTOR, YOU STUPID IGNORANT RACIST JERK...THE TRIBE YOU SHOULD BE MAD AT IS THE KARUK...WHAT HAVE THE ONEIDA, LAKOTA, CHIPPEWA, AND COUNTLESS OTHER TIBES EVER DONE TO U, YOU RACIST JERK....THIS SITE IS SUPOSE TO BE ABOUT PROSPECTING, NOT FOR YOU TO RANT RACIST NONSENSE....YOU MUST BE A SOCIALIST LIBERAL BECAUSE ONLY THEY SIT AROUND BLAMING OTHERS FOR THERE PROBLEMS....

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I AM AN INDIAN, i LOVE PROSPECTING, I HAVE NEVER GOT GAMMING MONEY (MOST INDIANS DONT), AND YOU ARE RACIST JERK!!!....IT'S ONLY 3-4 TRIBES OUT OF CALIFORNIA'S DOZENS OF TRIBES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS DREDGE BAN, AND SOME WERE QUITE UPSET WITH IT...I'M FROM A TRIBE BACK EAST, WE PUT GREAT VALUE ON WAMPUM, DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IT IS? IT'S NOT MONEY, H20PROSPECTOR, YOU STUPID IGNORANT RACIST JERK...THE TRIBE YOU SHOULD BE MAD AT IS THE KARUK...WHAT HAVE THE ONEIDA, LAKOTA, CHIPPEWA, AND COUNTLESS OTHER TIBES EVER DONE TO U, YOU RACIST JERK....THIS SITE IS SUPOSE TO BE ABOUT PROSPECTING, NOT FOR YOU TO RANT RACIST NONSENSE....YOU MUST BE A SOCIALIST LIBERAL BECAUSE ONLY THEY SIT AROUND BLAMING OTHERS FOR THERE PROBLEMS....

By the way ....this isn't a "hate post" I'm not the racist jerk moking an entire race of people for what a few people have done

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By the way ....this isn't a "hate post" I'm not the racist jerk moking an entire race of people for what a few people have done

Here is a list of all the entities that support the dredging ba....notice, most of them are white people,

SB 670

Page

4

California Coastkeeper Alliance

California Tribal Business Alliance

California Trout

Clean Water Action

Friends of the River

Karuk Tribe

Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen's Associations

Planning and Conservation League

Ramona Band of Cahuilla

San Manuel Band of Mission Indians

Sierra Club California

Sierra Fund

Sierra Nevada Alliance

Sycuan Band of the Kumeyaay Nation

Of the tribes listed they only speak for the Tribal councils...many Indians from these tribes do prospect, and some were against the dreging ban....nit that there are about 22 other Cali tribes, and abot 500 other tribes nation wide that have no opinion on this....so don't be ignorant and lump all indians, or any race into the boat, I know that most white folks aren't racist or stupid...

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I AM AN INDIAN, i LOVE PROSPECTING, I HAVE NEVER GOT GAMMING MONEY (MOST INDIANS DONT), AND YOU ARE RACIST JERK!!!....IT'S ONLY 3-4 TRIBES OUT OF CALIFORNIA'S DOZENS OF TRIBES THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS DREDGE BAN, AND SOME WERE QUITE UPSET WITH IT...I'M FROM A TRIBE BACK EAST, WE PUT GREAT VALUE ON WAMPUM, DO YOU ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IT IS? IT'S NOT MONEY, H20PROSPECTOR, YOU STUPID IGNORANT RACIST JERK...THE TRIBE YOU SHOULD BE MAD AT IS THE KARUK...WHAT HAVE THE ONEIDA, LAKOTA, CHIPPEWA, AND COUNTLESS OTHER TIBES EVER DONE TO U, YOU RACIST JERK....THIS SITE IS SUPOSE TO BE ABOUT PROSPECTING, NOT FOR YOU TO RANT RACIST NONSENSE....YOU MUST BE A SOCIALIST LIBERAL BECAUSE ONLY THEY SIT AROUND BLAMING OTHERS FOR THERE PROBLEMS....

NDN Gold lover,

You make me laugh as you used capital letters for all your words. Was that an attempt to make your point? Review your posts before you send. This way you will cut down on your spelling errors.

Wampum, as my ancestors (Pacific North West Indian) taught me, is white beads made from small shells and strung. It was their form of money since it hadn't even been invented yet.

Have a nice day NDN, settle down before you have a heart attack and study your politics. I could be labeled a racist like you, but never a socialist.

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Yeh me too, I'm over half Cherokee, look on the final DAWLES Rolls you will find about 160 on there with my last name under the Cherokee, and about half that For my mothers side of the family under Chocktaw. I have always been proud to be an OKIE, most OKIE'S are part Irish and or dutch, Scotch and Native american. Grubstake

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NDN Gold lover,

You make me laugh as you used capital letters for all your words. Was that an attempt to make your point? Review your posts before you send. This way you will cut down on your spelling errors.

Wampum, as my ancestors (Pacific North West Indian) taught me, is white beads made from small shells and strung. It was their form of money since it hadn't even been invented yet.

Have a nice day NDN, settle down before you have a heart attack and study your politics. I could be labeled a racist like you, but never a socialist.

Yea, I used all caps because I was mad, How am I racist? have i spoken against any race pf people? Find any post I have ever made where I do...And i I only judge people on what they say and do as a person....but you lump entire groups of people together based on thier color....and i don't have anything against anyone one this web site...except you....I don't hate, dont even know you, i just pitty you.....and the bigotry you harbor....by the way...your WRONG, wampum is ffrom the North East, the word it self comes from the tribal languages we speak back east (the term spread to western tribes when anglo and french fur traders brought it with the)....it was never used it for money until europeans came...that's what bartering was for....true wampum is only purple and white shell beads....and was used for to ascribe honor in social and religous cerimonies.....anway, sorry I called you a jerk early, that was uncalled for on my part, as a Christian I'm apologizing for that....but the lumping an entire race of people together...on racist notions and bigotry that's just not right...anyway where do you get that I am racsis? My mother is white...my wife like me is a half blood, and I never mocked any people group, or person based in their race....you got me on my spelling though...and i also aplogize for calling you a socialist; that was a low blow, like most of us on here Im sure you rather conservative....have a good night, peace to ya

-leon

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Grubstake,

Arnold couldn't fight his way out of a paper sack if all 4 corners were torn :wacko: !

I guess the prospectors in California will have to learn to detect more. Never has been nor will it be proven that dredging is harmful to fish. Off shore commercial fisherman prevent migration back from the sea :angry2: , and the Indians - who want their fishing rights - take the rest :angry2: , not dredgers. Ever see an Indian dredging :glare: ? They don't need to cause we frequent their casinos and give em much white man wampum! I'm sure to catch a bunch of hate posts for my comments :spank: .

Now you know why this native son will never return B) .

Thank the new 49ers for this mess too!

h20prospector

I am confused by your reference to the "New 49ers".Many of us have been Dredging since the Sixties or Seventies and we have fought this.

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Yea, I used all caps because I was mad, How am I racist? have i spoken against any race pf people? Find any post I have ever made where I do...And i I only judge people on what they say and do as a person....but you lump entire groups of people together based on thier color....and i don't have anything against anyone one this web site...except you....I don't hate, dont even know you, i just pitty you.....and the bigotry you harbor....by the way...your WRONG, wampum is ffrom the North East, the word it self comes from the tribal languages we speak back east (the term spread to western tribes when anglo and french fur traders brought it with the)....it was never used it for money until europeans came...that's what bartering was for....true wampum is only purple and white shell beads....and was used for to ascribe honor in social and religous cerimonies.....anway, sorry I called you a jerk early, that was uncalled for on my part, as a Christian I'm apologizing for that....but the lumping an entire race of people together...on racist notions and bigotry that's just not right...anyway where do you get that I am racsis? My mother is white...my wife like me is a half blood, and I never mocked any people group, or person based in their race....you got me on my spelling though...and i also aplogize for calling you a socialist; that was a low blow, like most of us on here Im sure you rather conservative....have a good night, peace to ya

-leon

Oh forgot to mention...originally only the white shell beads were called wampum (which is sort of what the word means) but it grew in time...today we value the purple ones more

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I am confused by your reference to the "New 49ers".Many of us have been Dredging since the Sixties or Seventies and we have fought this.

Here is the reason why I mentioned the new 49ers.

http://www.northcoastjournal.com/083007/cover0830.html

I'm not sure you will be able to click on the link and go to it. A computer know-it-all I'm not. You might have to cut and paste. It's a long article, but makes for interesting reading. There is a history of bad blood between the Karuk tribe and the new 49ers and it's not pretty.

NDN,

If I offended you and others that read my post, I apologize. That was not my intent as I'm mad that one group (new 49ers) have made a mess for ALL dredgers, and yes I did generalize rather than be specific. I sent my post and related comments to that post to my relatives in Seattle WA. and Broken Bow OK. They are not happy with my words, and got an earful in a phone call. My aunts, uncles, and cousins said my nickname "flies off the handle" fits me to a 'T' at this moment, and have brought great dishonor to my heritage. I will cease and desist on the subject of dredging

Truce?

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Here is the reason why I mentioned the new 49ers.

http://www.northcoastjournal.com/083007/cover0830.html

I'm not sure you will be able to click on the link and go to it. A computer know-it-all I'm not. You might have to cut and paste. It's a long article, but makes for interesting reading. There is a history of bad blood between the Karuk tribe and the new 49ers and it's not pretty.

NDN,

If I offended you and others that read my post, I apologize. That was not my intent as I'm mad that one group (new 49ers) have made a mess for ALL dredgers, and yes I did generalize rather than be specific. I sent my post and related comments to that post to my relatives in Seattle WA. and Broken Bow OK. They are not happy with my words, and got an earful in a phone call. My aunts, uncles, and cousins said my nickname "flies off the handle" fits me to a 'T' at this moment, and have brought great dishonor to my heritage. I will cease and desist on the subject of dredging

Truce?

Yea man...truce, all's well, have good night, and good luck looking for the yellow stuff.

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The racism is exactly what those running the country want to see. If you think the Congress or the President runs the country, your wrong. Racism and other political problems are created and takes the minds of people off the real problems, it's called the Hegelian dialectic. The Hegelian dialectic has been used on unsuspecting civilizations throughout history. Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it. The majority of Ill-advised and unwise Americans don't know history pertaining to control of the masses.

On a lighter note I received my new GPX 4500 last week. I assembled it and couldn't wait till Sunday. On the appointed day many nails, bullets, casings, tacks, etc were found, but no gold. I was amazed at the balancing ability of the unit compared

to my GB2. I did have a deep sounding signal around many boulders in the creek, but couldn't budge the boulders. I intend to return with a pry bar and tear that part of the creek up to find out what was making the signal.

MD

The pursuit of truth can only begin once you start to question and analyze every belief that you hold dear. If a certain belief passes the test of evidence, deduction, and logic, it should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but the thinker must also then question as to why he/she was led to believe the erroneous information in the first place. Socrates

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This wasn't posted here so I thought I would put the info out:

DFG News Release

Moratorium on Instream Suction Dredge Mining, Effective Immediately

August 6, 2009

Contact:

Kirsten Macintyre, DFG Communications Manager, (916) 322-8911

All California instream suction dredge mining has been suspended following the Governor’s signature on a new state law. The ban will be in effect until the Department of Fish and Game (DFG) completes a court-ordered environmental review of its permitting program, expected in late summer 2011.

SB 670 (Wiggins), signed today by Gov. Schwarzenegger, prohibits the use of vacuum or other suction dredging equipment for instream mining in any California river, stream or lake. Consistent with the moratorium, DFG has ceased issuing suction dredge permits, and all previously issued state permits are now invalid.

The moratorium on instream suction dredge mining took effect immediately as an urgency measure, prohibiting the use of vacuum or other suction dredging equipment for instream mining in reliance on any permit previously issued by DFG.

The moratorium does not apply to suction dredging operations performed for the regular maintenance of energy or water supply management infrastructure, flood control, or navigational purposes.

A violation of the moratorium on instream suction dredge mining is a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of up to $1,000 and six months in jail.

DFG is also currently subject to a court order prohibiting the issuance of suction dredge permits. (Leeon Hillman et al. v. California Dept. of Fish and Game, Super. Ct. Alameda County, Case No. RG09-43444.) The order, which prohibits DFG from expending any General Fund money, even indirectly, to issue suction dredge permits, will remain in effect as long as the Hillman lawsuit is pending or until further order of the court.

Additional information can be found at www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/specialpermits/suctiondredge.

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Jager. Your post says it all. Harbors, marinas can still be dredged so the bigshots can navigate their sailboats. They can dredge a channel to put in buried power lines or phone cables so the sierra clubbers can still have lights and phone service , but no mining can be done with a dredge . It's obvious these groups are just pushing a vendetta against gold miners as they have been doing for years. We see it every day, whole mountains can be torn down for construction materials and nobody bats an eye. Dig a small hole with a pick and shovel and the greenies come out of the woodwork. I would love to see the salmon come back to historic levels, but even the DFG biologists will have to admit that decline in salmon is directly linked to the hydroelectric power plants and dams. They know they can't fight the huge power companies and so do the greenies who like the power that lights their homes. It's nice clean power but the baby salmon go through the turbines as they head out to sea. Few if any survive and the adults often have trouble passing the dams going upstream to spawn even when fish ladders are provided. We know that dedging has little or nothing to do with salmon mortality, but the power companies probably are glad to see the finger being pointed at the miners and I wouldn't doubt that they are involved with this bill. With any luck there will be a honest EIS done and the bill will have to be thrown out, but this may take several years.----Bob

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Montana I grew up in California and I"ll tell ya things haven't changed . I worked on dredging bargdes that sucked sediments out of the harbors, I also worked on a project that created a harbor north of Channel islands (Oxnard). we took farm land and dug channels from the coast and created harbors several miles inland. The project involved a great amount of earth moving. They were running out of high dollar real estate so why not make some! Its California pure and simple. If your stirring some mud for taxes its OK but if you just want to stir up someones pristine creek and they dont get a piece of the pie??? the natural flooding creates more sediment than dredging. if you over conserve you will upset the natural balance..... Look at Australia, it will burn down. Wake up California. AznuggetBob

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This wasn't posted here so I thought I would put the info out:

DFG News Release

Moratorium on Instream Suction Dredge Mining, Effective Immediately

August 6, 2009

Contact:

Kirsten Macintyre, DFG Communications Manager, (916) 322-8911

All California instream suction dredge mining has been suspended following the Governor’s signature on a new state law. The ban will be in effect until the Department of Fish and Game (DFG) completes a court-ordered environmental review of its permitting program, expected in late summer 2011.

SB 670 (Wiggins), signed today by Gov. Schwarzenegger, prohibits the use of vacuum or other suction dredging equipment for instream mining in any California river, stream or lake. Consistent with the moratorium, DFG has ceased issuing suction dredge permits, and all previously issued state permits are now invalid.

The moratorium on instream suction dredge mining took effect immediately as an urgency measure, prohibiting the use of vacuum or other suction dredging equipment for instream mining in reliance on any permit previously issued by DFG.

The moratorium does not apply to suction dredging operations performed for the regular maintenance of energy or water supply management infrastructure, flood control, or navigational purposes.

A violation of the moratorium on instream suction dredge mining is a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of up to $1,000 and six months in jail.

DFG is also currently subject to a court order prohibiting the issuance of suction dredge permits. (Leeon Hillman et al. v. California Dept. of Fish and Game, Super. Ct. Alameda County, Case No. RG09-43444.) The order, which prohibits DFG from expending any General Fund money, even indirectly, to issue suction dredge permits, will remain in effect as long as the Hillman lawsuit is pending or until further order of the court.

Additional information can be found at www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/specialpermits/suctiondredge.

What's happening here should concern anyone who loves freedom, what's happening here is government's desire to control every aspect of the private sector's life, any legislation put infront of them that will restrict our liberty they wil sign. I came to California a year ago thinking I was going to settle down, raise a family etc...I couldnt belive all the additional rules they have out here, all the taxes (which is just another way of controlling freedom), while im going to miss the gold (this one of the greatest hobbys I have ever participated in.) We are moving back to the northern Mid-west next summer...where you can still buy a 40 acre parcel with a house for the less than $200,000. Where you don't need a special permit to have a small campfire, a special permit to pick up fallen wood, where you dont have to compete with the with animal rights activists who are trying to shut down the season just to go deer hunting (and then pay a ridiculous amount to buy the liscence)....where it cost less than $100.00 to register my truck. I know i'm just kidding myself, if what ever state we move to do dosen't eventually try to dictate every little dictate of our life for the sake of political "correctness" and "the greater good" the federal government will...

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NDN gold lover. There are still a few isolated places where you can still buy some cheap land , build pretty much whatever kind of house you can afford to throw together on a budget without too much interference from building inspectors, but they are very few and far between. Parts of Alaska, Nevada, Arizona, Oregon and Idaho have county governments that pretty much let a person alone. I don't know if these counties are too poor to have building inspectors or just plain don't have strict building codes in place. Unfortunately these places usually have some serious drawbacks such as no local economy for jobs, Bad water or no water available, bad weather or poor access in the winter. In other words if it's attractive to the high dollar developers , there will be lots of restrictions and rules.

As far as the stream dredging goes, the Sierra clubbers like to think that the streams of the Sierras are there soley for there wilderness hiking enjoyment. They get outraged when they hike into a canyon and hear a dredge motor. They forget that 130 years ago that stream was probably lined with gold miners working their claims and California would probably still belong to Mexico or Spain if these pioneers hadn't gone there . They would have no access to this part of the country if it wasn't for the 49ers. They forget that Californias heritage is GOLD MINING. The gold from California brought the U.S. out of some serious financial problems at the time and helped the country recover from the effects of the civil war. ----Bob

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Corporations basically control our government now, and its in the best interests of corporations to control what people can and cant do. If you can go out and enjoy your public lands free of charge then you are less likely to be giving any money to big industry. You aren't a "Customer" of anything when you enjoy free public land. They would rather control your rights and funnel you and your money into whatever venue they control. They take their big money and they use it to buy government influence.

A good example of this is the Adventure Pass, which, for those who aren't familiar with, is basically a $5 parking fee for any National Forest land ( Public Land ) ONLY implemented in Southern California. Among many of the corporations that sponsored the Adventure Pass was the Disney Corporation which happens to have a large theme park in So Cal. Coincidence? Well damn if you have to spend money to go somewhere might as well go to Disney Land instead. This is what we have to look forward to.

In my opinion, it no longer matters which party has control. Both have mutually worked together to make sure they are the exclusive groups and both parties are backed by corporate money. The only difference is which corporations are supporting which party. Enjoy your rights before they are sold to the highest bidder.

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