Sudan:Lets not forget

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug

Your statements are illogical, so it's okay to deal with China because they have something that we need what a load of cr#p, everything that we import from China can be produced within Australia if our government supported locals instead of getting caught up in Globalisation. Give it a rest you germ

Lee

At least I have the courage to make my own personal views on Sudan public, contrast this with JP's refusal to answer this question!

Are you happy to deal with a country whose president has been indited as a war criminal? yes or no?

JP lacks the ticker to answer this question! I wonder why? Are his opinions in conflict with those of his masters or does he put profits before people and moral principles?

doug

[Hotrocks]

Doug. Did you miss the bit about Toyota building a 1.5 billion oil pipeline in Sudan? I suppose that is to supply the vehicles that the UN uses and sponsors! must be a lot of Toyotas in Sudan. Google Toyota Tsusho Corp. for details.

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug. Did you miss the bit about Toyota building a 1.5 billion oil pipeline in Sudan? I suppose that is to supply the vehicles that the UN uses and sponsors! must be a lot of Toyotas in Sudan. Google Toyota Tsusho Corp. for details.

Is it not at this stage just a proposal? Has the heads of agreement been signed by all parties? Does it not depend on whether S Sudan gets independence?

doug

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug,

You just bought a Toyota right? You've owned Toyotas for 20 years right?

Please explain why you bought a vehicle from a manufacturer that has a dealership in the Sudan.

Welcome to Toyota in Sudan

http://www.goldenarrowsudan.com/profile.htm

You sir are a bl**dy hypocrite!!!

Robert

What vehicles does the UN peace keeping forces use in Sudan! Toyota' you turkey! Toyota I believe may also sponsor some of the UN vehicles. It makes sense to have a repair and dealership in the country in which the Toyota UN vehicles are used!!!Robert do your research and then you won't make much such an idiot of yourself. Robert is it not correct that you were forced to withdraw some allegations against me and publicly apologize otherwise you would have been sued for defamation! yes or no?

So I think Robert that you have little credibility!LOL!

doug

[AZNuggetBob]

Doug, Hotrocks is on the right track in my opinion. sure some of the locals flipped to or stayed with the military there in Sudan just to get payed or stay alive, most of the people that the Sudanese government are trying to eliminate are immigrant squatters from the south, Congo, etc. and considered a nuisance by the Sudanese government. but its well known that troops have been brought in from elsewhere. It IS all about oil doug. sure there are several large mining companies involved too and many other contractors, but that's not the Sudanese governments primary interest. The up front cash flow is why sanctions wont work. We all know got cash you can get what ever you want right, regardless of sanctions. Look at Iran! Who is this mystery buyer???? follow the money! or maybe I should say follow the pipeline. So not selling metal detectors over there is only going to help keep those trying to hack out a living in that country living in poverty, and keep the price of the detectors very high....by not selling your creating a black market. Its supply and demand. AzNuggetBob

[Robby_H]

What vehicles does the UN peace keeping forces use in Sudan! Toyota' you turkey! Toyota I believe may also sponsor some of the UN vehicles. It makes sense to have a repair and dealership in the country in which the Toyota UN vehicles are used!!!Robert do your research and then you won't make much such an idiot of yourself. Robert is it not correct that you were forced to withdraw some allegations against me and publicly apologize otherwise you would have been sued for defamation! yes or no?

So I think Robert that you have little credibility!LOL!

doug

Doug,

Government troops and officials, the war lords, terrorists and machete wielding nutters also run around in Toyotas!!! And that particular dealership has been there for 40 years, does anyone actually believe it was established just to service UN vehicles??? Your arguments never make sense!

This is much the same as you pretending to help Whites in their court case with ML but you plan to sell the QED at a much lower price and undercut Whites so you obviously couldn't care less what happens to them, or the people of Sudan!!!

Do the right thing Doug, buy a heap of ML detectors, toss them in your brand new Toyota Prado and burn the lot in a public place and someone might actually believe you are serious.

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug,

Government troops and officials, the war lords, terrorists and machete wielding nutters also run around in Toyotas!!! And that particular dealership has been there for 40 years, does anyone actually believe it was established just to service UN vehicles??? Your arguments never make sense!

This is much the same as you pretending to help Whites in their court case with ML but you plan to sell the QED at a much lower price and undercut Whites so you obviously couldn't care less what happens to them, or the people of Sudan!!!

Do the right thing Doug, buy a heap of ML detectors, toss them in your brand new Toyota Prado and burn the lot in a public place and someone might actually believe you are serious.

Sudan: End Post-Election Repression

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2010/05/24/sudan-end-post-election-repression

Sudanese rights group condemns post-election violence and unrestricted tortures

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article35311

Is Sudanese unity beyond repair?

“The question: so what? And why all of a sudden this butcher seems to worry so much about the well-being of South Sudan, only after he’d turned the whole nation into a morgue, over the course of his tenure in office? And is anything really is going to be any worst than the irreparable harm committed by his “ Jihad” war, in which over two million innocent South Sudanese lost their precious lives, all for no wrong doing other than their demand for justice and equality in their own land? “

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?article35512

A Troubled Post-Election Darfur: What Did You Expect?

“This incident demonstrates that the rule of law remains largely absent from Darfur. Instead, the newly elected members of Bashir's party and a chaotic array of militias, fractured rebel movements, and security agents control the region's seven million people through the barrel of their guns and their political schemes to control and dominate everyday life.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sean-brooks/a-troubled-post-election_b_572156.html

doug

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Robby_H

Are you happy to deal with a country whose president has been indited as a war criminal? yes or no?

doug

[goldtimer]

JP, you don't need to apologise, the forum trolls need a good

Otherwise they'll start to think that they're smart

Doug - The good thing about the gold-rush in Sudan is that AVERAGE SUDANESE PEOPLE can have an opportunity to make some money, feed themselves, and their family.

The fact that the Government is corrupt, and that there are war criminals in charge of the country (Although I agree with you this is a very bad thing that should be changed) is, I believe, irrelevant, because everyday Sudanese people are using gold detectors to improve their quality of life.

IF the detector companies were to stop selling detectors to the Sudanese, these people would have this opportunity to make a living taken away from them, which is UNFAIR.

[Huego 1]

Doug, it is a total waste of time & energy trying to convince those who do not wish to be convinced, no matter how much proof, how logical you are or many references & independent reports you can provide to support your case. THEY DO NOT WANT TO KNOW!

Subject content whether it be Sudan, the QED, the ML 5000 is totally irrelevant to this MINDLESS pack who are out to attack you, not be swayed or convinced by you. "The AZO POLL" created under the guise of identity confirmation by JP was used to garner support to justify an obvious lie is an example. A personal experience supporting what I have been told.

My suggestion: Go for a run, take the dogs for a walk, make dinner & talk the wife while having a red. Have a rest and think. Your day will come, and these abusers, liars & denigrators will know, but they will not apologise, their silence will be their admission.

Cheers, Huego

[AZNuggetBob]

I agree with Huego just give up. AzNuggetBob

[goldtimer]

Huego- you took the words right out of my mouth - Doug, go do something useful for a change!!!!!

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug, it is a total waste of time & energy trying to convince those who do not wish to be convinced, no matter how much proof, how logical you are or many references & independent reports you can provide to support your case. THEY DO NOT WANT TO KNOW!

Subject content whether it be Sudan, the QED, the ML 5000 is totally irrelevant to this MINDLESS pack who are out to attack you, not be swayed or convinced by you. "The AZO POLL" created under the guise of identity confirmation by JP was used to garner support to justify an obvious lie is an example. A personal experience supporting what I have been told.

My suggestion: Go for a run, take the dogs for a walk, make dinner & talk the wife while having a red. Have a rest and think. Your day will come, and these abusers, liars & denigrators will know, but they will not apologise, their silence will be their admission.

Cheers, Huego

I think that you are correct Heugo,you are never going to get a straight answer particularly from RH who in my personal opinion is just a spineless puppet! Just look at how many question I have asked him on forums that he has refused to answer because it does not suit the agenda or spin of his masters! I bet that he will not answer this latest question or he will try to avoid it by throwing in his usual red herrings!

Quite pathetic really!

doug

[Huego 1]

Huego- you took the words right out of my mouth - Doug, go do something useful for a change!!!!!

What Doug is doing IS useful but is WASTED HERE on those who can't (ie won't) see what he is presenting, no matter how much evidence he provides. I suggested he takes break, recharges his battery and clears his mind.

The problems Doug has are not the poor of Sudan, who I'm sure he supports, but their exploiters & abusers and the people on forums who abuse him (those who do not wish to even contemplate another viewpoint, just because it come from him).

Huego

[Robby_H]

Robby_H

Are you happy to deal with a country whose president has been indited as a war criminal? yes or no?

doug

Doug, listen to yourself, you're a bluddy fruit cake!

I don't deal with Sudan but over 2% of their imports are from Oz and you are obviously happy to buy products from companies and countries who do deal with Sudan so what is your problem other than being completely mad??

Why aren't you whinging about the trade in diamonds, tantalum and every other comodity stained in the blood of thousands of Africans? Where were you when machete wielding fruit cakes patrolled Sierra Leone in Toyota utes chopping the hands off children and raping and killing teenage girls? You say the Sudanese president is guilty of war crimes but that's a western view, the so-called Christians in Sudan aren't exactly angels and one UN report in one of your links says the US/western policy in Sudan will lead to a blood bath and you expect us to be worried about a few fossickers wandering around with metal detectors who are just trying to better their life.

And I always answer your questions you dill. You just don't like the answers. You though never answer my questions and always reply with the standard "RH is a puppet" or demand an answer to some other dumb question. You didn't address one point in my previous post, you just seem to have an overwhelming need to stand on a soap box and be heard but you hate it when others disagree with you.

I don't know about your time here being wasted but I do know you are a complete waste of space! :rolleyes:

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug, listen to yourself, you're a bluddy fruit cake!

I don't deal with Sudan but over 2% of their imports are from Oz and you are obviously happy to buy products from companies and countries who do deal with Sudan so what is your problem other than being completely mad??

Why aren't you whinging about the trade in diamonds, tantalum and every other comodity stained in the blood of thousands of Africans? Where were you when machete wielding fruit cakes patrolled Sierra Leone in Toyota utes chopping the hands off children and raping and killing teenage girls? You say the Sudanese president is guilty of war crimes but that's a western view, the so-called Christians in Sudan aren't exactly angels and one UN report in one of your links says the US/western policy in Sudan will lead to a blood bath and you expect us to be worried about a few fossickers wandering around with metal detectors who are just trying to better their life.

And I always answer your questions you dill. You just don't like the answers. You though never answer my questions and always reply with the standard "RH is a puppet" or demand an answer to some other dumb question. You didn't address one point in my previous post, you just seem to have an overwhelming need to stand on a soap box and be heard but you hate it when others disagree with you.

I don't know about your time here being wasted but I do know you are a complete waste of space! :rolleyes:

You are so predictable!

buts let try the question again!

Robby_H

Are you happy to deal with a country whose president has been indited as a war criminal? yes or no?

doug

[Huego 1]

Doug, ...... you expect us to be worried about a few fossickers wandering around with metal detectors who are just trying to better their life.

Doug, Robby_H says:

“you expect us to be worried about a few fossickers wandering around with metal detectors who are just trying to better their life.”

AS IF you or I have ever focussed our concerns for “a few fossikers trying to better their life!” NEVER! WHY? Because that’s an obvious red herring, a diversion just like a politician uses - re-construct the question or the key issue and throw it back in reconstructed form. Or address different issues as if they were those you raised!

The key issue as I understand it, is the illegal sales of new & used detectors, coils & electronic parts willingly to a prescribed & blacklisted country, Sudan. Large sums in cash are paid by the poor and oppresed! :lol:

The trading ban applies for vey good reasons, often to countries with confirmed terrorist links (like Iran or Nth Korea with similar regimes & also with similar innocent people whome we sympathise with.)

Huego

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug, Robby_H says:

“you expect us to be worried about a few fossickers wandering around with metal detectors who are just trying to better their life.”

AS IF you or I have ever focussed our concerns for “a few fossikers trying to better their life!” NEVER! WHY? Because that’s an obvious red herring, a diversion just like a politician uses - re-construct the question or the key issue and throw it back in reconstructed form. Or address different issues as if they were those you raised!

The key issue as I understand it, is the illegal sales of new & used detectors, coils & electronic parts willingly to a prescribed & blacklisted country, Sudan. Large sums in cash are paid by the poor and oppresed! :lol:

The trading ban applies for vey good reasons, often to countries with confirmed terrorist links (like Iran or Nth Korea with similar regimes & also with similar innocent people whome we sympathise with.)

Huego

Heugo, here is another question that has not been answered that I asked on AZO.

Can you tell us if Japan has contributed any humanitarian aid to Sudan? If so how much and what sort of aid?

Maybe RH can give us the answer, but i doubt it!

Here is the Oz (and UN) government link on the Sudan sanctions

http://www.dfat.gov.au/un/unsc_sanctions/sudan.html

doug

[Robby_H]

You are so predictable!

buts let try the question again!

Robby_H

Are you happy to deal with a country whose president has been indited as a war criminal? yes or no?

doug

Gawd you're a twit, I don't deal with Sudan directly but our wheat producers and others do, this improves our trade figures, so yes, I'm perfectly happy for our country to deal with Sudan. You also benefit from this but if you don't like it then complain thru the correct channels, simple!

The USA pours hundreds of millions of dollars into Sudan, do you know where this money actually goes?

Do you agree with their policy towards the North?

Do you know anything about the US policy? Do you agree that their policy will result in another blood bath?

Do you think Tony Mills did the right thing by going to Sudan on business? I'm sure he's anxious to hear your opinion!!!

Whites are trying to establish dealerships in Sudan. Should they obtain your permission Doug??

Who cares if Japan has contributed any humanitarian aid to Sudan, they will do whatever it takes to help Toyota build their pipe line!

And please explain why you only condemn those who deal with Sudan and not other countries with similar problems?

Assuming the QED actually is a threat to Minelab, will it also undercut Whites and price them out of the pi market?

What is your true agenda Doug? I think your obsessive Minelab bashing disorder is showing!

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug, Robby_H says:

“you expect us to be worried about a few fossickers wandering around with metal detectors who are just trying to better their life.”

AS IF you or I have ever focussed our concerns for “a few fossikers trying to better their life!” NEVER! WHY? Because that’s an obvious red herring, a diversion just like a politician uses - re-construct the question or the key issue and throw it back in reconstructed form. Or address different issues as if they were those you raised!

The key issue as I understand it, is the illegal sales of new & used detectors, coils & electronic parts willingly to a prescribed & blacklisted country, Sudan. Large sums in cash are paid by the poor and oppresed! :lol:

The trading ban applies for vey good reasons, often to countries with confirmed terrorist links (like Iran or Nth Korea with similar regimes & also with similar innocent people whome we sympathise with.)

Huego

As I said RH is so so predictable! He will do anything to avoid answering my question! All we get is just more spin and diversion and asking me what i know about other countries foreign policies! I am good but certainly I am not knowledgeable on US or other countries foreign policy on Sudan! Poor bugger can't even answer my question on any japanese humanitarian aid or otherwise to Sudan! RH is hopeless and seems to have a reading problem as well because I have made my position on Sudan crystal clear but seeing he appears to have this reading problem I will restate it:other than humanitarian aid (including things like landmine remediation)no person/company/Government should in my opinion have any dealings with Sudan.Now its up to each and every person/company etc to examine their conscience and their principles and on this basis and on information known to make an informed decision as to whether they decide to deal with Sudan or not.

doug

[Robby_H]

I have made my position on Sudan crystal clear but seeing he appears to have this reading problem I will restate it:other than humanitarian aid (including things like landmine remediation)no person/company/Government should in my opinion have any dealings with Sudan.Now its up to each and every person/company etc to examine their conscience and their principles and on this basis and on information known to make an informed decision as to whether they decide to deal with Sudan or not.

doug

I answered your question but I noticed you didn't answer any of mine as usual but I do get it now Doug so let's make this very clear...

You Marshall Douglarse P, dog breader, forum troll and chief googler, do decree that other than humanitarian aid (including things like landmine remediation) no person/company/Government shall in your opinion have any dealings with Sudan.

Now get the nurse to type this out and send it to every company and head statesman in every country in the world, there's a good boy! :lol:

I should feel sorry for you.... but I don't!

[Huego 1]

As I said RH is so so predictable! He will do anything to avoid answering my question! All we get is just more spin and diversion and asking me what i know about other countries foreign policies! I am good but certainly I am not knowledgeable on US or other countries foreign policy on Sudan! Poor bugger can't even answer my question on any japanese humanitarian aid or otherwise to Sudan! RH is hopeless and seems to have a reading problem as well because I have made my position on Sudan crystal clear but seeing he appears to have this reading problem I will restate it:other than humanitarian aid (including things like landmine remediation)no person/company/Government should in my opinion have any dealings with Sudan.Now its up to each and every person/company etc to examine their conscience and their principles and on this basis and on information known to make an informed decision as to whether they decide to deal with Sudan or not.

doug

It takes a lot to bring all this information to readers attention. In the other post on Sudan (AZO forum) I gave a very specific references to US laws pertaining to dealing with Sudan (export of any technology to Sudan) so that any company or member doing it could be do so at their own risk. I'm not moralising as US & AUSTRALIAN national LAWS are beyond that.

The use of old Toyota utes by the thugs & bullies in Sudan I'm sure has nothing to do with dealers selling products there. Seeing a ML dealership sign there would not implicate ML unless it can be shown they export metal detectors to Sudan. Land mine detectors may be approved exports. Can you imagine the average "poor" Sudanese, ordering from a ML dealer holding wads of cash & offering the dealer heaps to buy bulk lots of detectors like they did in US & Australia??? Its ridiculous! The REAL poor get the crumbs from the rich & powerful as always!

Seems the backdoor to Sudan is via Dubai. But even that indirect route is covered in US laws so it is also illegal for US & Australian companies to sell indirectly to Sudan (eg via Dubai). How this is policed beats me. The average "poor Sudanese" could never afford an expensive Toyota or expensive ML detector. The export of foods (grain from Australia), medicines (from US) & necessities of life OF COURSE are not banned by such laws. I'm not sure if Japan has such an export ban with Sudan, but it seems not. Vehicles may be exempt from UN sanctions, I don't know.

Huego

Shouldn't that be "breeder"?

[fredm]

Doug; I honor the right of every being to voice their opinion...

but, this is not the place. Your opinions step over the line into preachy diatribes and unreasonable accusations (in my opinion)).

Your disputes with Minelab and Jonathan Porter are of no interest to me...however, your efforts to bring Minelab some competition are laudable.

I personally enjoy a good argument as long as the fight stays clean...you know; no kicking, gouging, biting or knives...

Yes, I will be down to visit Doug Stone after my Halls creek Tour...I would enjoy meeting you!

fred

[Guest GoldProspectinginOz]

Doug; I honor the right of every being to voice their opinion...

but, this is not the place. Your opinions step over the line into preachy diatribes and unreasonable accusations (in my opinion)).

Your disputes with Minelab and Jonathan Porter are of no interest to me...however, your efforts to bring Minelab some competition are laudable.

I personally enjoy a good argument as long as the fight stays clean...you know; no kicking, gouging, biting or knives...

Yes, I will be down to visit Doug Stone after my Halls creek Tour...I would enjoy meeting you!

fred

Thank you! email me when you are coming to Victoria so we can meet.

cheers,

doug

[Huego 1]

Doug; I honor the right of every being to voice their opinion...

but, this is not the place. Your opinions step over the line into preachy diatribes and unreasonable accusations (in my opinion)).

Your disputes with Minelab and Jonathan Porter are of no interest to me...however, your efforts to bring Minelab some competition are laudable.

I personally enjoy a good argument as long as the fight stays clean...you know; no kicking, gouging, biting or knives...

Yes, I will be down to visit Doug Stone after my Halls creek Tour...I would enjoy meeting you!

fred

Hi Fred, I hope you don’t mind my intervening & responding to your comments.

I respect you for honouring the right of free speech, an essential human right, that to be heard (even if ignored).

Doug and I sometimes do become a bit monotonous & “preachy”, with hot topics which attract a lot of flack, because the central message presented is ignored, diverted or distracted (as if its ML bashing). We try to stick to the message (main theme of the post) & provide references & supporting reasons for our views.

Like you, I think past differences (eg between Doug & JP) are for them to sort out & certainly not through personal attacks. Personal attacks are the methods our denigrators enjoy most because it’s the “lowest common denominator” (appealing most to some of their followers), followed by throwing of stick & stones and public hangings .

As the moderator’s helper can I urge you to intervene if & when YOU see personal attacks or abuse you call “kicking, gouging, biting or knives”. These DO NOT belong on forums (much less so than contentious subjects like trading with Sudan, like ML quality & policy, competitive products etc).

Trust you will enjoy your visit to Australia. Who knows, you may get to see or use the QED.

Respectfully, Huego