grubstake Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 Well atleast, they haven't learned how to make a FAKE, DOC or ROB to sell and distribute the fake coils yet. But give them time! Grubstake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted July 18, 2010 Report Share Posted July 18, 2010 No, of course not. We have a record of every serial number on every coil that has been delivered to Rob. You are more than welcome to have a prospective buyer check with me to confirm the coil is legit.I see a counterfeiter on Alibaba selling fake Coiltek Coils and their ability to produce these coils is 3000 a month. I can tell you that Trevor at Coiltek Manufacturing only wishes they could manufacture 3000 a month. Their current production ability is about half of that.DocWow this is good stuff. I have not followed the fake scam very closly but the question I have is what if I want to sell my used coiltec coils. Is there a way they could check with you Rob to see if they are real? Or do I just own boat anchors if I dont chose to use them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dennis sanders Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 3000 coils a month x12...36000 coils made and sold in a year..when pigs fly..and grubbie what have you been drinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huego 1 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 The Chinese are masters at duplication. I mean right down to the smallest detail. I bought my wife a FAKE COACH purse for like $39, and we went to the COACH store to see how close it matched the real $398 COACH purse. Impossible to tell the difference. Even the clerk said, "No I think that is a real COACH purse." I said it couldn't be, I only paid $39 for it. (Doc)You guys are worried about sales & business lost, the Chinese are looking at a new business they can gain, even if at the expense of others. (I suspect they just see what they do as normal competitive behaviour in an open western market!) The prospector is looking at effective & reliable coils & detectors at the best prices. Do brand names matter that much to them? At the moment they do as they can't trust copies / fakes. Penetrating a existing market where demand is/was high by emulation (“me-too” products) has been practiced by the Asian producers for many years. I am not condoning what they do, just saying it is a fact.The real problem behind the scenes is the "Arizona Dealers" pretty much make (up) the majority of the top dealers, or major Minelab partners. Some people and dealers can't stand this .... Don't knock the AZ Minelab dealers that have put their Heart and Soul into making a successful business. (Rob Allison)I have no doubt you have Rob. When Chinese master this duplication (as they will) will customers get to buy coils / detectors that work as well or better than originals at a proportion of the price? Will keeping ahead with new designs & innovation be enough? AZ dealers, like most dealers, need customer loyalty, but is it that enough to outweigh savings in hip pocket? If Chinese producers are breaching copyright or patents then it is a legal matter & should be pursued. If the Chinese are effective in breaking into new markets & are serious about making money they may create new product names, apoint legitimate US (or Mexican) dealers & US service centres for their products. The dynamics will change again. If they can’t be stopped, will the manufacturers consider using Asian manufacturing (like ML has now) to keep costs down (and remain competitive)? Chinese manufactured products have permeated almost every hobby & household and quality is increasing as are prices. It has happened with Japanese and Korean products. Huego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Huego I have to disagree here. China is putting out black market crap products designed only to copy and miss lead the public for their own personal GREED.. They are abusing copyrighted logos and patents in the process destroying sound hard earned reputations for quality metal detector products and after market high performance accessories. AzNuggetBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoldProspectinginOz Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Huego I have to disagree here. China is putting out black market crap products designed only to copy and miss lead the public for their own personal GREED.. They are abusing copyrighted logos and patents in the process destroying sound hard earned reputations for quality metal detector products and after market high performance accessories. AzNuggetBobThe sad part is that the Chinese are destroying the reputation of Coiltek , Nugget finder and ML with their crap counterfeit coils.An unconfirmed rumor is that they are now selling these counterfeit coils in Australia as well!Folk should only buy coils from an authorized dealer and never from Ebay or privately unless you know the person.The latest generation of Chinese fake 4500's are also very close in appearance to the real thing so buyer beware!doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Doug I hope this doesn't happen to the QED. you already have a lot of info out there on it. Im all for better technology at a better price but I dont think were going to see it come out of China. just cheap knock offs. AzNuggetBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GoldProspectinginOz Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Doug I hope this doesn't happen to the QED. you already have a lot of info out there on it. Im all for better technology at a better price but I dont think were going to see it come out of China. just cheap knock offs. AzNuggetBobYes counterfeiting by the Chinese is a real worry for anyone trying to bring a new detector to market. I also know that a potential new coil maker in Australia is considering his options because whats the point of going ahead if your coils are going to be counterfeited by the Chinese in no time flat! Even worse is the fact that their are fake IC's being made by the Chinese and being sold as the real thing!doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Doug I know the what coil your talking about and I cant wait for its release too. Ive been watching the development. but if its as good as I think its going to be China wont be far behind with knock offs. AznuggetBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huego 1 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Bob, Doug:I don’t mind being disagreed with. I am just speculating about what could happen IF this Chinese copying continues and improves (as it will). Appearances are one thing but when they match performance that is another, that will require more time and work by them. GREED is an interesting and subjective word. In some cultures EXCESSIVE PROFIT is seen as greed. (The US banks were greedy.)The Chinese may see themselves as being SMART businessmen making such good copies. Sadly they don’t value or respect copyrights or logos or patents or reputations. I am trying to understand them, not justify what they are doing to members. I think coils & detectors should be bought from authorised dealers, just I as did my Honda generator & water pump that are both copied with inferior Chinese equivalents. I don’t support “black market” copies or activities (ie breaking of laws). However unless stopped, the western world will accept Chinese technology (even if copied) the same way they did Japanese, Taiwanese & Korean products …… in time. Huego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huego 1 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Doug I hope this doesn't happen to the QED. you already have a lot of info out there on it. Im all for better technology at a better price but I dont think were going to see it come out of China. just cheap knock offs. AzNuggetBob :D :D If you believe the Aussie know-all detractors Bob, it will be easy to copy ...... "just a lunch box on a stick!" In fact, there is very little real info to copy on the QED. Copying of performance goals or specs requires means. Coping the PCB looks easier than it is to do I have been told. Again just my humble views on real "Vapour" detectors! Huego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 :D :D If you believe the Aussie know-all detractors Bob, it will be easy to copy ...... "just a lunch box on a stick!" In fact, there is very little real info to copy on the QED. Copying of performance goals or specs requires means. Coping the PCB looks easier than it is to do I have been told. Again just my humble views on real "Vapour" detectors! HuegoI agree Huego to an extent, the Chinese only really copy the outside..... AzNuggetBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huego 1 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I agree Huego to an extent, the Chinese only really copy the outside..... AzNuggetBobAppearances are the easiest to re-create and it is what the buyer sees. I think what is important is to realise that the thinking / reasoning, driving the "TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT" when dealing with or having conflicts with Asian culture / values (whether dealing with making MONEY or winning a cold war) is VERY DIFFERENT to the western views. Good Copies of technology made for a low price & sold where the money & demand is, is not seen as improper or wrong (they are "filling a need", they make, you buy) - UNLESS the law steps in to protect the IP. Making money is such a passion and skill, few can match when dealing with the Chinese makers & sellers. Respect for laws of patents & copyright may be learnt very slowly. I hope the US & Australian laws are tested to see what pans out. Perhaps a type of class legal action may be required for broad impact. Punitive measures may not work as they have so much financial clout in USA & Australia now. This is getting too political for me. Huego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 Appearances are the easiest to re-create and it is what the buyer sees. I think what is important is to realise that the thinking / reasoning, driving the "TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT" when dealing with or having conflicts with Asian culture / values (whether dealing with making MONEY or winning a cold war) is VERY DIFFERENT to the western views. Good Copies of technology made for a low price & sold where the money & demand is, is not seen as improper or wrong (they are "filling a need", they make, you buy) - UNLESS the law steps in to protect the IP. Making money is such a passion and skill, few can match when dealing with the Chinese makers & sellers. Respect for laws of patents & copyright may be learnt very slowly. I hope the US & Australian laws are tested to see what pans out. Perhaps a type of class legal action may be required for broad impact. Punitive measures may not work as they have so much financial clout in USA & Australia now. This is getting too political for me. Huego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huego 1 Posted July 20, 2010 Report Share Posted July 20, 2010 I agree Huego to an extent, the Chinese only really copy the outside..... AzNuggetBobAppearances are the easiest to re-create - it's what the buyer sees. (Chinese copies need to look like originals to convince & sell. BUT, do they work as well?)Generally speaking, I think what is important to realise is that the thinking / reasoning, driving the "TERMS OF ENGAGEMENT" when dealing with or having trade conflicts with Asian cultures / values (eg making MONEY or winning a cold war) is VERY DIFFERENT to the western views. Good Copies of technology made for a low price & sold where the money & demand is, is not seen as improper or wrong (they are "filling a need", they make, you buy) - UNLESS the law steps in to protect the IP.Making money is such a passion and skill, few can match when dealing with the Chinese makers & sellers. Respect for laws of patents & copyright may be learnt very slowly. I hope the US & Australian laws are tested to see what pans out. Perhaps a type of class legal action may be required for broad impact. Punitive measures may not work as they have so much financial clout in USA & Australia now.This is as far as I will go, as international relations are too political for me. Huego Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGilmore Posted July 21, 2010 Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Take a look at the place of origin on this one, Nugget Finder 17 x 11 advantage for Minelab mono eliptical. It says Guangdong China. It also says they are a manufacturer. AzNuggetBobhttp://www.alibaba.c...tage-coils.htmlSomehow i'm not understanding this....but then I won't ever buy a minelab unless I see it in a yard sale for $40 bucks or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin nuggethunting Posted July 21, 2010 Author Admin Report Share Posted July 21, 2010 Hey AZNuggetBob, I clicked on the "Chat Online with Me" at that site for this seller - Dongguan Cheebo Electronic Co., Ltd., and they stated they are building the Nuggetfinder coils from the chat converstation. Has anyone else tried to contact them through the chat mode? Talk with you later,Rob Allison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted July 22, 2010 Report Share Posted July 22, 2010 Hey Rob sorry I didn't get back to you sooner I've been working on the mill down south. anyway something else I was thinking about is those who choose to buy the knock off coils may also be risking blowing their TR FETs in their Minelabs. there is more to building coils than meets the eye and these knock off coils come with a boat anchor warranty. take care, AzNuggetBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin nuggethunting Posted August 2, 2010 Author Admin Report Share Posted August 2, 2010 Hey AZNuggetBob, Was going to call you this weekend since we got rained out, but decided to head back home. Will have to make it over one of these weekends when I'm up around that country again. Talk with you later,Rob Allison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 No problem Rob we'll get to it when the rain slows down. Take care out there, AzNuggetBob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Ron Posted August 3, 2010 Report Share Posted August 3, 2010 Yo All ... In my other life, I have had quite a bit of experience with the Chinese companies on Alibaba over half a dozen years or so... They are very nice folks to deal with mostly but their products are vastly inferior and they will cut huge corners for a product that APPEARs to work to spec but will fail quickly...In my area of expertise (creating electronic purifiers) their products become downright poisonous or toxic within short hours of operation...But they are very cheap compared to Western produced items...My guess is that would transfer over to detecting products too ... Just my two pennies ... Cheers, Unc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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