max tuning for the 4500


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i've moved up slowly over the past five years from goldmaster v-sat, 2100, 2200, 3000, 3500, 4000 & now the 4500. never owned any of these machines new until the 4000, then the 4500. lots of ground covered, lots of trash dug, lots of experience. testing different combinations under different conditions. just now getting to be friends with the 4500. i really like some things about this detector, others i just ignore. nice to have a backlight, also nice to just turn it off. i have a 3 grain test nugget, my first nevada nugget a couple years back. that little nugget is gospel! if i can't get a solid hit on it at 4 to 5 inches, i'm not tuned. threshold: my challenge! i love the seta program , i usually run in deep, enhanced modes with a mono coil. the other settings? throw away the book! i just dial in for the quietest threshold, cleanest hit on my test nugget. stabilizer is a plus. now to the point! ground balancing the P.I.'s is pretty much a no brainer, but if you've less time on detectors you may confuse other threshold chatter with ground balance . the problem is not in the ground, but in the air! how do i air balance my 4500? minelab skips lightly over this subject of my worst enemy to a happy threshold. EMI's they say, live with it! well, i didnt buy a $4500 machine to live with an obstruction to a quiet threshold, the key to detecting those faint whispers of elusive targets! so, i do the air tune, sometimes in 2 or 3 directions. not much help. those random "boings" at occasional intervals are a nuisance, but, no help for them. UFO's probably. this problem doesn't occur at night & is less so in the mornings. afternoons, more so. none of the ground balance cures apply to this dilemma. i have switched to DD with some success while using the mono coil. so, i ask you, gentlemen, what's the cure? Drifter.

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So, was this a half hearted attempt at giving some "max setings" for the 4500? No where in this thread do I see any real tip or tricks...Sounds like after all these years you have just discovered EMI and posssibly lightning strikes. UFO`s you say though.... :lol:

3 grains at 4-5 inches?? Really?? Sorry if I dont believe it... I`d love to see it in real life :rolleyes:

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I suspect that should read 3 grams, not 3 grains (.19 gram).

In the UK we have lots of EM interference, and I tend to manually set noise cancel, be it on a GPX or E-Trac.

On my E-Trac the sweet spot channel for performance is anywhere between 2 & 4, and the worse possible channel to be is 10 (using pro and SEF coils).

At 10 on the E-Trac falsing sounds exactly like target responses... unfortunately when preforming an auto noise cancel where there's lots of EMI, this is the number normally selected.

I have found this is the same on my 4500, the "sweet spot" is usually between 80 and 110 (depending on coil). I always try to find a quiet channel there first before resorting to auto, where channels in the low 200s are normally chosen.

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Drifter

I haven't tried this yet but I read that it helps if you switch to patch before you air balance that it will help with the EMI and balance on the ground , not the air then go back to your deep setting.

Adam & Gogmeister

I just recently found a 0.2 gram nugget with quartz in it at 3 1/2 inches deep with a 14" Nugget Finder Advantage coil on my GPX 4000. A smaller coil would have picked this up with no problem.

It's the one on the upper left bottom. John

post-16801-127990565077_thumb.jpg

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Drifter

I haven't tried this yet but I read that it helps if you switch to patch before you air balance that it will help with the EMI and balance on the ground , not the air then go back to your deep setting.

Adam & Gogmeister

I just recently found a 0.2 gram nugget with quartz in it at 3 1/2 inches deep with a 14" Nugget Finder Advantage coil on my GPX 4000. A smaller coil would have picked this up with no problem.

It's the one on the upper left bottom. John

post-16801-127990565077_thumb.jpg

That's a good depth for a 14" coil... what timings were you using?

While in Nevada on my recent trip, I did manage to find a near-surface sub 1 grain flake, using sensitive extra and a 11" mono.... so I guess anything is possible.

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Hey Drifter

Max out your gain 15, now max out motion to fast, audio to boost now hit auto tune. Now go back to your settings this will help. You may have to repeat every hour or so. this works great for me. good luck

Lon

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I just recently found a 0.2 gram nugget with quartz in it at 3 1/2 inches deep with a 14" Nugget Finder Advantage coil on my GPX 4000.

Come to think of it, I have detected a few 2 to 3 grain pieces at some depth, and those were with the 14 CT RM. I should go ahead and insert foot into mouth :D

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That's a good depth for a 14" coil... what timings were you using?

While in Nevada on my recent trip, I did manage to find a near-surface sub 1 grain flake, using sensitive extra and a 11" mono.... so I guess anything is possible.

Sensitive extra, tracking slow, motion very slow. I have found pickers less than 0.1 grams with 11" Minelab mono coil at less than 2" deep. I wear hearing aids and use an amplifier turned up so I can hear the slightest sound. The Koss UR-30 headphones work best with my hearing aids, I've tried them all.

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guess i should have put a ? after 4500 on the headline of my posting. ADAM, your comments regarding my post are unworthy of any response from me. by the way, your word "setings" is more properly speled with 2-t's. "try to master some of the basics & you may progress." drifter. gogmeister, grampa john & lon, thank you for your advice on tuning out the EMI. i'll print them out & try them all next time out. drifter.

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Hi guys, hey that EMI trick Grampa John is writing about seems to help out sometimes because I've been doing it on my 4000 for a couple years now. However instead of using the preset settings in patch mode I've got my own settings- Crank the gain to maximum and switch your swing speed to fast and save it in one of the preset modes. All you do is flip the switch over, tune, then flip the switch back to your normal settings. Sometimes it smooths out the threashold a lot and seems to help with EMI in some places. I'm in such a habit of using it I couldn't imagine doing anything else.

Del

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So, was this a half hearted attempt at giving some "max setings" for the 4500? No where in this thread do I see any real tip or tricks...Sounds like after all these years you have just discovered EMI and posssibly lightning strikes. UFO`s you say though.... :lol:

3 grains at 4-5 inches?? Really?? Sorry if I dont believe it... I`d love to see it in real life :rolleyes:

Picking up sub grainer's is a no brainer,I hunt on average 3 days a week I consistently get sub grainer's with the 11" commander mono, and the 12x15 commander mono and there is no trick to it,. Three days ago I got a 2 grain nugget at three inches. The men I hunt with do the same thing the machines we use are 4500s. The smallest I ever got was a .4 grainer, the dealer had to weigh it on a powder scale. A person can hunt or hunt at it and that makes all the difference.

Have good day

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true story i agree a 2200 does not pick up 3 grainers verry easy but with my 4000 and any good small round or eliptical mono plus the right settings ive found even smaller stuff sittin in the bottom of a crack a few inches down! I cant imagine the sensitivity on a 4500 , even with an advantage 17 by 11 mono i see two or three grains at a few inches. as far as emi goes were going to have to just tuff it out like we have always done. big nugs to all Justin

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Maxing out your gain and some other settings before autotuning works well, and that is basicly what you are doing when you switch to patch also. One thing that most people don't do if the EMI is still there is use the manual tuner. The autotuner scans so quickly that it often stops in the general area with the least interference, but not exactly at the best number. Turn the manual adjust a notch at a time up or down If it doesn't improve turn it the other way. Usually within a few clicks you'll hit the optimum setting . As the day goes on and the EMI creeps back in, tweek the manual tune again. It's much faster than a complete retune and usually smooths it out again. In summer when the EMI seems to be at its worst, pay attention to the stabilizer setting . You can drop it to 4 or 5 without losing much sensitivity. Using the QUIET audio setting reduces all EMI and random whoops dramaticly and again no real loss of sensitivity, you just have to pay attention , you'll still hear those tiny ones which you won't hear if the threshold is chattering. Then there is the motion setting . I never take mine out of very slow setting . Increasing the motion setting just one notch to slow increases EMI significantly. Okay, so now the detector is dumbed down a little. No problem ! Move a little slower and you'll re-gain any loss of performance and have a much more enjoyable day. All that detuning knocks the edges off the EMI spikes, but the signal from a true target is still there but maybe not as crisp and clear as it would be with all the settings tweeked upwards. Once you get used to a slightly softer nugget response you'll recognise it for what it is without having to deal with all that noise. We can't do anything about the lightning or static discharge spikes but they are now much less of an annoyance and they will sound very different from a target signal. With all the adjustments on the 4500 there has never been a day when I have been tempted to give up for the day because of EMI with the exception of Lightning popping all around and we really shouldn't be out there in that situation anyway . Coil choice is also important in bad EMI situations . If you are running an 18 inch coil and can't get the detector to settle down , drop to a 14" elip or smaller and the difference is amazing.----Bob

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Hello Guys,

I have to agree that some times you can max all your settings out, tune and have a smooth, running detector. However, recently out here in Arizona with the Monsoon's, none of these techniques are working where I'm hunting. The last couple of days the detectors have been so noisy it's not even worth hunting for small nuggets. The last couple of days you don't even dare turn your coil sideways without being blown away with spikes, bongs and we-wo's. :angry:

Hey, we found a bunch of nuggets though, just probably missed some smaller ones.

Great tips for setting up your GPX though.

P.S. As for small gold, I starting finding sub-grain nuggets at or near bedrock with the GP Extreme. I have found nuggets as small as 0.3 grains on bedrock with the GP and GPX series detectors with smaller Mono searchcoils. I have found hundreds of sub-grain & grain sized nuggets with the GPX-4500 alone. One of my favorite timings for small gold is the "Sensitive/Extra" mode.

Prior to that, with the original SD2100 (no mod's or Pocket Rocket System) and a small Mono I was able to find them down to about 2-4 grains depending on shape and density of the nugget.

Hope this helps,

Rob Allison

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O.K., then, we seem to agree that teensy nuggets are normal finds under the right conditions & that the EMI syndrome warps our hunting. speaking specifically of the GPX series it seems to me that the more sophisticated the minelab programs tend to dealing with magnetism & ground balancing, the worse the EMI's. so we now have a hot rod detector we must frequently de-tune to try & stabilize our threshold in order to find any gold, let alone the elusive, missed nuggets we're after. something's missing here! yes, it's good to learn different tricks to try & stabilize the interference, but i would like consistant stability with my machine. to know that at all times i can tune'er up & go with that confident feeling we only sometimes get, where if any bit of detectable gold is under my coil, next stop is my poke! so then, the EMI thing is for real & it messes with us. WHY? is it the control box, the coil, or both? i suspect the coil. not only is it the transmitter, but the receiver as well. seems to me that it is the component most likely to pick up the EMI & put it in our ear. i'm into theory here, so bear with me. this recieved interference (EMI) is for the most part something Minelab has not yet dealt with, with or without their own coils. ground balance & discrimination (to a degree) is their forte. so what if, perhaps, the coil windings were somehow shielded against this? what do you guys think ? drifter.

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Hey Drifter most of the EMI comes from the coil. If you think it's bad with your 4500 you should hear some of the older Minelab PI's. Working with EMI is just part of using these detectors and once you get used to them you'll learn how to work with it.

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I have been up in nevada this week and the emi was intence. i thought it was the lightning in ca,i have spent a lot of time on this .one thing that was not mentioned is the custom setting, by doing this and cranking up gain/tracking/deep. it is amazing what you can acheive as a threshold. the heat plays hell on the machine.after the tune take the gain down and use the stabalizer.tracking very slow motion slow and swing slow. I,am running a 12/15 commander and it is smooth as silk. if the threshold aint smooth you might as well go home cus you aint going to hear your gold.also a note i feel the depth on the 4500 is no better than prior machines on big gold in low mineralization. yep you will get some dinks but you need not waiste your time going over a 2100.s 12 year old patch.I also found out a older coil can be a hinderance in these situations.why i cant say but they do.I have to also say the commander coil is now my favorite,and yes i have tried the others.Take time and play with the settings the machine does not lie.

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hey denny, what commander are you running? I've been trying to get the 12x15 mono to work and it gives me fits. The 12x15 dd works really well and quiet. I've only had this detector a month but i'm about ready to quit, and go back to highbanking. I really thought this would be easier. I put in about 50 hours a week at this and the best settings for me are deep, sensitive extra and in dd mode for the comm dd. I did get good hits off my test nugget (7 grains), at 6in running in mono mode with the dd, and sens smooth. I know i'm new here but it seems there are a lot more people on here that run 4500's, and i hope to learn as much as i can beacuse one nugget so far is killing me!

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Funny MikeC.... Very Funny :D;) Them 4500`s must be hard to operate :(^_^

Actually the 4500s are a simple machine, a turn on and go machine,but most people are over driving it. There is nothing mysterious about it.Just because there is EMI present does not mean you can't hear the targets,you will still be able to hear a .5 gram nugget at 6"s..,the only thing EMI is shieding are the grainers.Sometimes a fellow just has to go with the flow and learn how to accept mother nature.

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Hello All,

The Minelab GPX-4500 helps elliminate EMI much better than prior models, but there are times when it seems like it don't matter. This weekend we picked up a bunch of nuggets, but the EMI was bad. Most of it was coming from Monsoon storms. There are times when you can elliminate EMI, other times just quiet it down and then times where it don't seem like there are any solutions.

This weekend was one of those times for me. The Monsoon's seems to be the worst for Arizona hunting. This weekend it was "Bing, Boom, We-Wo" and whatever else EMI can do. I tried Auto and Manual tuning, changing settings and timings and even changing coils and batteries to see if there would be any difference. NONE whatsoever .... It's just something you have to deal with during certain times of the years. I've been dealing with it for the last 12+ years with PI's, so it's no new thing.

When you do have EMI, try to do what you can to help quiet it down, but if not, then you just have to pay much more attention to the signal responses inbetween all the other noise you might experience. I've dug thousands of nuggets during the Monsoon's, so I know you can still find big and small gold, just pay close attention to what the detector is telling you.

I'm not sure the "Magic Wand" everyone is looking for is out there yet.

Just my thoughts,

Rob Allison

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