Please read! Our rights threatened again

[Jim P.]

Hi Rob and all, Please click the link below. Then click Read an overview of House Bill 2573. House Bill 2573 imposes a fee and other requirements for driving "off road" in AZ Once again, we have to pay for someone else's stupidity! Don't think it will end here, this is just the tip of the ice burg. It won't be long before OHVs are only allowed in designated areas. It looks like there might be a run on burros again

Thanks for checking it out. Later...Jim P.

AZG&F offroad legislatoin

[nuggethunting]

Hey Jim,

It's to early for me to pay fees and get restricted, I just got my Quad! My old legs are worn out from all that hiking.

Sure hope it doesn't pass.

Rob Allison

[rockhead]

Ahh the new California. They have been sysmatically shutting us down for a long time. Just like mining the forest service sees this as a destructive activity. Funny how they always seem to alow clear cutting though......I wonder which part of the public there are serving.

[Jim P.]

Hi Rob, yah, the timing sucks. Look at the bright side, you can always get a burro to pull your quad around

Rockhead, I had the same thought about CA. I can't deny that it can be destructive, but I and the vast majority of outdoorsmen follow the existing laws and stay on the trails. It's the minority idiots that tear up everything in sight, without a thought or care about the consequences to all of us.

I want to make a clear distinction in my argument against this type of legislation. It's their right to be an idiot and tear up the landscape. The problem is in them not taking responsibility or being held account able for exercising their right. It's already against the law to do what they do. Enforce the law, punish the idiot, not me!

Something else I would like to point out. In my opinion, pointing fingers at other law abiding groups( like loggers, miners, Rock crawlers, hunters Etc.) is exactly the wrong approach. This is the time we need to band together and make this government work for the majority. I'm guilty of looking the other way when I see one of those idiots out there; but their rights end where mine begin and I think it's time we all take a proactive role in preserving our rights and our heritage. What do I mean by that? I'm not exactly sure yet. I'm not going to look the other way anymore. Kinda like the guy who says " I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore". I'm not clear at this point as to the best course of action, but I'm working on it.

Thanks for reading this far. later...Jim P.

[Ted Scott]

Locate your district

Locate your State Senator

Here's mine, where's yours?

Tom O'Halleran 1 R tohalleran@azleg.gov 303A 926-5584 417-3101

[AZNuggetBob]

Good one Ted, Excellent post. AzNuggetBob

[Ted Scott]

Thanks Bob.

I'll just mention progress on my side here. I did call Mr. O'Hallaran who was occupied on the floor of the senate. I took his secretary to task on the issue and was assured I'd receive a call back from the good senator by Monday. We'll see. Based on her assurances though I believe it.

I hope many, many others from the Prescott area will call his office today and tomorrow so that he has at least a few phone calls to return on Monday.

Oh and while your at it, make sure and call Lucy Mason and ask her why the hell she didn't even show up to vote on this in the house?? WTF?

[Uncle Ron]

Yo All...I contacted Senator Ron Gould who I understand is a leader in the fight against this bill...He wrote me back and so I invited him to post on the main four AZ gold forums to try to rally the troops...I hope he does...Here's his info page... http://www.azleg.state.az.us/MembersPage.a...;Legislature=48 ...You can click on his email and indicate your opposition to the bill...Cheers, Unc

[Jim P.]

Thanks for your help Guys.

Ron, That link doesn't work for me. Try this one.

http://www.azleg.gov/MembersPage.asp?Membe...;Legislature=48

Both my representatives voted no, so I wrote and thanked them and asked if they could recommend any other action to help defeat this bill. Still waiting for a response. Later...Jim P.

[rockhead]

Hi Rob, yah, the timing sucks. Look at the bright side, you can always get a burro to pull your quad around

Rockhead, I had the same thought about CA. I can't deny that it can be destructive, but I and the vast majority of outdoorsmen follow the existing laws and stay on the trails. It's the minority idiots that tear up everything in sight, without a thought or care about the consequences to all of us.

I want to make a clear distinction in my argument against this type of legislation. It's their right to be an idiot and tear up the landscape. The problem is in them not taking responsibility or being held account able for exercising their right. It's already against the law to do what they do. Enforce the law, punish the idiot, not me!

Something else I would like to point out. In my opinion, pointing fingers at other law abiding groups( like loggers, miners, Rock crawlers, hunters Etc.) is exactly the wrong approach. This is the time we need to band together and make this government work for the majority. I'm guilty of looking the other way when I see one of those idiots out there; but their rights end where mine begin and I think it's time we all take a proactive role in preserving our rights and our heritage. What do I mean by that? I'm not exactly sure yet. I'm not going to look the other way anymore. Kinda like the guy who says " I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore". I'm not clear at this point as to the best course of action, but I'm working on it.

Thanks for reading this far. later...Jim P.

Jim you make a very good point. A much better way of expressing my feelings. I think the real problem is the lack of management of the "Idiots" or even uninformed people. I wish you luck on your adventure.

[just-john]

Yo All...I contacted Senator Ron Gould who I understand is a leader in the fight against this bill...He wrote me back and so I invited him to post on the main four AZ gold forums to try to rally the troops...I hope he does...Here's his info page... http://www.azleg.state.az.us/MembersPage.a...;Legislature=48 ...You can click on his email and indicate your opposition to the bill...Cheers, Unc

What need to be done is for the State Legislature to put some restrictions on AZGF . Since their hunting and fishing and big game permits are down something like 20 % and their self funded their looking for ways to get iinto everybody's pocket. What with getting all that free land for that new headquarters buildings and the Ben Avery range one would believe all those Master degree's could learn to make a buck some other way.Whole place turning into a bunch of tree huger who want to save nature for the people who will never get off the fat butts and leave the TV and actually see it. since I'm ranting tell me why is the clay target center run by a guy with a degree in fish biology ???? Many people are tired of their bs and not getting fishing and hunting permits this year .Let see how the tree lover feel when their tazes go up to pay for the great outdoors once the sportsmen of Arizona stop paying for it.

[Jim P.]

Hi all, I received a reply from one of my Representatives, Bob Stump. He writes:

"Sen. Jake Flake's committee is this bill's next stop. You might drop him a line to share your thoughts.

The bill goes to Transportation after that. Sen. Ron Gould is that committee's chairman.

Thanks again.

Best,

Bob Stump"

So, if you would like to offer your opinion Here's Senator Flakes email. jflake@azleg.gov

Uncle Ron already posted Senator Gould's info but here it is again. rgould@azleg.gov

Here are a few more thoughts on the subject. What can we offer as an alternative to this Bill? My fear is if we stop this bill from becoming law, something worse will follow, like a voter initiative. I can only think of a few groups who are organized and funded well enough to get an initiative on the ballot and it's not prospectors or ATVers. How do we stop the destruction of our public lands without giving up our freedom? The Game and Fish department has "Operation Game Thief" for poachers, why not try something like that for trail-blazers? For me, it's not so much about the fees or permits as it is about language like this;

"A person to SHALL NOT drive an off-highway vehicle...

ON ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS CLOSED AS INDICATED IN RULES OR

REGULATIONS OF A FEDERAL AGENCY, THIS STATE, A COUNTY OR A MUNICIPALITY OR BY

PROPER POSTING IF THE LAND IS PRIVATE LAND.

4. OVER UNIMPROVED ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS UNLESS DRIVING ON

ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS WHERE SUCH DRIVING IS ALLOWED BY RULE OR

REGULATION.

B. A PERSON SHALL DRIVE AN OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE ONLY ON ROADS, TRAILS,

ROUTES OR AREAS THAT ARE OPENED AS INDICATED IN RULES OR REGULATIONS OF A

FEDERAL AGENCY, THIS STATE, A COUNTY OR A MUNICIPALITY."

As long as I follow the existing law, why should my access by whatever means I chose be denied? If we give in to this language, we are at the mercy of our government. I'm tired and thinking about this makes me too angry to think straight right now, but I know there is a better solution. Please offer any ideas here or to our legislators.

Thanks. Later...Jim P.

[just-john]

Hi all, I received a reply from one of my Representatives, Bob Stump. He writes:

"Sen. Jake Flake's committee is this bill's next stop. You might drop him a line to share your thoughts.

The bill goes to Transportation after that. Sen. Ron Gould is that committee's chairman.

Thanks again.

Best,

Bob Stump"

So, if you would like to offer your opinion Here's Senator Flakes email. jflake@azleg.gov

Uncle Ron already posted Senator Gould's info but here it is again. rgould@azleg.gov

Here are a few more thoughts on the subject. What can we offer as an alternative to this Bill? My fear is if we stop this bill from becoming law, something worse will follow, like a voter initiative. I can only think of a few groups who are organized and funded well enough to get an initiative on the ballot and it's not prospectors or ATVers. How do we stop the destruction of our public lands without giving up our freedom? The Game and Fish department has "Operation Game Thief" for poachers, why not try something like that for trail-blazers? For me, it's not so much about the fees or permits as it is about language like this;

"A person to SHALL NOT drive an off-highway vehicle...

ON ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS CLOSED AS INDICATED IN RULES OR

REGULATIONS OF A FEDERAL AGENCY, THIS STATE, A COUNTY OR A MUNICIPALITY OR BY

PROPER POSTING IF THE LAND IS PRIVATE LAND.

4. OVER UNIMPROVED ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS UNLESS DRIVING ON

ROADS, TRAILS, ROUTES OR AREAS WHERE SUCH DRIVING IS ALLOWED BY RULE OR

REGULATION.

B. A PERSON SHALL DRIVE AN OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE ONLY ON ROADS, TRAILS,

ROUTES OR AREAS THAT ARE OPENED AS INDICATED IN RULES OR REGULATIONS OF A

FEDERAL AGENCY, THIS STATE, A COUNTY OR A MUNICIPALITY."

As long as I follow the existing law, why should my access by whatever means I chose be denied? If we give in to this language, we are at the mercy of our government. I'm tired and thinking about this makes me too angry to think straight right now, but I know there is a better solution. Please offer any ideas here or to our legislators.

Thanks. Later...Jim P.

[just-john]

When I'm Driving the desert back roads that are shown on any topo map and have been for more than 50 yrs

How in the world can AZGF tell me it's not a road. When I'm driving the desert back roads and come to a sign

that say===== CAUTION THIS ROAD IS USE FOR Illegal Activities AND BE CAUTIOUS OF YOUR SURROUNDING'S ===

This is bull and so for me AZGF will not be getting any money for me this year. Besides with $3.50 gal gas

it cost $100.00 just to go shoot at some doves. No thanks I'll keep my money this year. They lost sight of their job its hunting and fishing not all this other stuff.Wait till they sell off that range Ben Avery they say they won't but you watch .They will come up with some bull about moving it farther out of town and sell the land and make

millions from a gift given to them by sportsmen

[Jim P.]

HI all, one more thing I forgot to bring up. I find no provision in this bill for the state to collect the funds. Take a look at this from the bill.

"Any governmental agency, corporation or other individual that

16 conducts a training and OR educational course, OR BOTH, that is approved by

17 the ARIZONA GAME AND FISH department, THE UNITED STATES BUREAU OF LAND

18 MANAGEMENT OR THE UNITED STATES FOREST SERVICE OR THAT IS APPROVED OR

19 ACCEPTED BY THE ALL-TERRAIN VEHICLE SAFETY INSTITUTE OR THE NATIONAL

20 OFF-HIGHWAY VEHICLE CONSERVATION COUNCIL may collect a fee FROM THE

21 PARTICIPANT that is reasonable and commensurate for the training and that

22 IS DETERMINED BY THE DIRECTOR OF THE ARIZONA

23 GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT BY RULE."

Anyone can give the training and collect the money. Are they doing it out of the goodness of their hearts and turning the money over to the state? I doubt it. Take a look at all the letters of support form OHV dealers. Do you think money could be the motivator? What a great deal for them, they guaranty their customers will continue to have a place to use their products plus they get to charge them for the government mandated training. Now that's the American way. I'm sure the G&F or state would charge a licensing fee to the instructors, but most of the money would stay in their hands.

Rob, Bill and Chris, maybe you could get in on the action. Lobby the legislature for a prospector's permit that requires a training course for all prospecting, approved equipment, and designated areas to prospect. Sound like a win-win if I ever heard one. I'm being sarcastic of course, please don't take that as a swipe in any way.

I don't want to distract attention from the threat to our rights to access by bringing this up, but I thought it might help explain why so many dealers support the bill.

Later...Jim P.