Azoverland Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Having just returned to Arizona from our honeymoon in Alaska during the worst wildfire season in history is a stark and sad contrast. Leaving the 2nd largest rain forest in the world after many great travels that included tourist trap gold panning (which of a whole lot of fun!) I return to the complete closure of the Coronado National Forest, blistering blow drier type winds and the largest wildfire in Arizona history ripping though the most pristine forest and watershed area of the state. "Unprecedented weather and fire conditions" are unlike anything I have seen here as a native Arizonan. It makes me just about sick. I can't go detecting where I want for some time now, some of my favorite fishing holes are located within the burn area of the Wallow Fire and my other favorites are down stream of the fire. How will the fishery respond to the run off of ash? Not well, we are even in the best case scenario looking at the loss of the best smallmouth bass, brown and rainbow trout river miles in the state and almost the whole loss of the attemp to reintroduce the native Apache trout to streams on non-native public lands. Wildlife restoration attemps that represent years of research and hard work by Arizona Game and Fish and others in both the Apache trout and Mexican Grey Wolf are being undone in a matter of days. Thousands of familes and homes are being uprooted and threatened. Fire is a natural part of the forest but what is happening in Arizona does not seem natural at all, because of course it is not. The Wallow Fire is man made. My understanding is two guys from southern Arizona took a fishing and camping trip to a small tributary of the Black River. They left the campfire unattended for a short time in the morning while they took to the creek to get some morning fishing in. When they returned the fire had engulfed their camp site, killing their dogs, and detroying their vehicle. They got out on foot and a forest ranger picked them up. They still claim their fire was out before they left camp and are very upset about the event of course and sad about the dogs. As upset as I am about the fire and as stupid as it was to even have a fire are these men now criminals? The forest service had an high fire danger warning but no fire restrictions were in place at the time the Wallow Fire started! None! Now two weeks later the entire Forest is closed to all human activity! Fire restrictions should have been in place 2 months ago and forest access should have only been premitted to hunters with predrawn tags in my opinion.Whatever your opinion it's a sad state of affairs for all Arizona outdoorsmen. Best of Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldies1955 Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Well....the forests and desert should be closed to retards that dont know how to camp! But thats not going to happen. So we suffer for thier lack of common sense.40s + yrs camping with fires and never had a problem. Some people just dont get it. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Chris Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 While its a shame that the fire has destroyed a lot of ground, and it will not be restored in our lifetimes, fire is as natural as rain. For thousands of years even before the very first humans stepped foot across the Bearing Straight into North America, fires burned unsuppressed across the countryside. Those ancient fires, unstopped by human kind, burned for months and sometimes spread for thousands of miles. Yet animals survived, fish lived and forests regrew. Life continued and succeeded with no sheparding or any other help toward restoration from humanity. We as humans tend to vastly overrate our long term effect on the planet. Yep, fire restrictions should have been in place. Sometimes however I think the NFS staff prefer a full shutdown as its basically a paid holiday for most NFS employees. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homefire Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Eaaaaaaaaaw!It was time for a Fire.It could have just as easily been started by a failed Power pole. Lightening, A glass bottle with the sun hitting it just right.It's going and we have to deal with it.Just like the folks that built there houses along the rivers flooding, folks that built there houses within the Pinney Woods took chances.There was a major fire stopped here in New Mexico yesterday started by a car with a flat tire of all things.Stuff Happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-BONE Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 San diego suffered thru one of california's worst fires in 2003 dubed the ceader fire as it was named for where it was started,a lost hunter started a signal fire so search teams could find him and it got out of control.we lost human life and over 600.000 acers burned and 3000+ homes where lost. Azoverland i feel for your lost forest,but you will see how nature corrects it self you will be in awl.in our forest the cleveland national forest is rebounding very well,but if not for the loss of human life and property (ie) homes this fire would of been a good fire a revamp of our forest is in progress now,the fire opened new areas to explore. the forest in time will have your old tromping grounds back.but with easy access to ground you never knew was there.but dont wait to long to get out to these new open areas.as you will see nature act's quickly to reclaim what is her's..Terry a.k.a T-Bone 2003 was a bad year for southern california for all the fires Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Soloman Posted June 18, 2011 Report Share Posted June 18, 2011 Having just returned to Arizona from our honeymoon in Alaska during the worst wildfire season in history is a stark and sad contrast. Leaving the 2nd largest rain forest in the world after many great travels that included tourist trap gold panning (which of a whole lot of fun!) I return to the complete closure of the Coronado National Forest, blistering blow drier type winds and the largest wildfire in Arizona history ripping though the most pristine forest and watershed area of the state. "Unprecedented weather and fire conditions" are unlike anything I have seen here as a native Arizonan. It makes me just about sick. I can't go detecting where I want for some time now, some of my favorite fishing holes are located within the burn area of the Wallow Fire and my other favorites are down stream of the fire. How will the fishery respond to the run off of ash? Not well, we are even in the best case scenario looking at the loss of the best smallmouth bass, brown and rainbow trout river miles in the state and almost the whole loss of the attemp to reintroduce the native Apache trout to streams on non-native public lands. Wildlife restoration attemps that represent years of research and hard work by Arizona Game and Fish and others in both the Apache trout and Mexican Grey Wolf are being undone in a matter of days. Thousands of familes and homes are being uprooted and threatened. Fire is a natural part of the forest but what is happening in Arizona does not seem natural at all, because of course it is not. The Wallow Fire is man made. My understanding is two guys from southern Arizona took a fishing and camping trip to a small tributary of the Black River. They left the campfire unattended for a short time in the morning while they took to the creek to get some morning fishing in. When they returned the fire had engulfed their camp site, killing their dogs, and detroying their vehicle. They got out on foot and a forest ranger picked them up. They still claim their fire was out before they left camp and are very upset about the event of course and sad about the dogs. As upset as I am about the fire and as stupid as it was to even have a fire are these men now criminals? The forest service had an high fire danger warning but no fire restrictions were in place at the time the Wallow Fire started! None! Now two weeks later the entire Forest is closed to all human activity! Fire restrictions should have been in place 2 months ago and forest access should have only been premitted to hunters with predrawn tags in my opinion.Whatever your opinion it's a sad state of affairs for all Arizona outdoorsmen. Best of Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldies1955 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Man Terry: Thats going way back to the 70s?Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisman91 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Hey, isn't that the Indian that's been crying about the dredging in California? LMAO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoverland Posted June 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 While its a shame that the fire has destroyed a lot of ground, and it will not be restored in our lifetimes, fire is as natural as rain. For thousands of years even before the very first humans stepped foot across the Bearing Straight into North America, fires burned unsuppressed across the countryside. Those ancient fires, unstopped by human kind, burned for months and sometimes spread for thousands of miles. Yet animals survived, fish lived and forests regrew. Life continued and succeeded with no sheparding or any other help toward restoration from humanity. We as humans tend to vastly overrate our long term effect on the planet. Yep, fire restrictions should have been in place. Sometimes however I think the NFS staff prefer a full shutdown as its basically a paid holiday for most NFS employees. ChrisChris, while wildfire is as natural as rain in an environment untouched by man such places are few and far between in the U.S. However we do have such examples and here in Tucson a very interesting and good one. Tucson is a valley and to the north we have the Santa Catalina mountain range and to the east the Rincon mountain range both in the Cononado National Forest. The Catalina's have a small town and ski lift near the summit and multiple camping loops and hiking trails. On south side of the range there is a two lane highway and on the northern slopes at dirt road. The Rincons are undeveloped with little more than some hiking and horse trails. Because there is more to protect in the Catalina's fire suppression had been going on in that range for over 50 years. At the first sign of a plume the fire was quickly put out. The same did not happen in the Rincons, wildfires in the Rincons were left unchecked. The end result is with well over 50 years of suppression the forest became over grown and the ground very cover dense. When the Aspen and Bullock fires of 2002 and 2003 began there was plenty of fuel to completely burn over 115000 acres, from the gound to the canopy everything was lost. The results in the Rincons was very different. The Rincons had far more fires over the same time peroid but because most of these fires where caused by lighting and all where allowed to take there own course only one moved into the forest canopy and the total acres lost was 3500. The point being, the differance between a natural wildfire and human ignition in a forest with a long history of heavy suppression is vast. We need to forsake our 100 year old ideas about forest wildfire management, IT'S NOT WORKING.http://walter.arizona.edu/overview/study_areas/catalina_fire_hist.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkirkll Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 AZOV,Sorry to hear about it all. I know Border Boy is sick! He lost stuff up in Ash Canyon and a lot of structures went upther too.We laughed about Greaterville , because we wanted to see the grass gone.I know this hurts you locals, but if its any consulation ---and i know it aint, but I have been driving 200 miles one way to get to my claim about every weekend since i have been here. AND...It keeps raining!!!! Never happened in years, they say, but i woke up last night to the sounds of raindrops, knowing my hard dug drywash pile was getting damp!Strange how weather affects us all...to the extremes....paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homefire Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Quote: Chris, while wildfire is as natural as rain in an environment untouched by man such places are few and far between in the U.S. However we do have such examples and here in Tucson a very interesting and good one. Tucson is a valley and to the north we have the Santa Catalina mountain range and to the east the Rincon mountain range both in the Cononado National Forest. The Catalina's have a small town and ski lift near the summit and multiple camping loops and hiking trails. On south side of the range there is a two lane highway and on the northern slopes at dirt road. The Rincons are undeveloped with little more than some hiking and horse trails. Because there is more to protect in the Catalina's fire suppression had been going on in that range for over 50 years. At the first sign of a plume the fire was quickly put out. The same did not happen in the Rincons, wildfires in the Rincons were left unchecked. The end result is with well over 50 years of suppression the forest became over grown and the ground very cover dense. When the Aspen and Bullock fires of 2002 and 2003 began there was plenty of fuel to completely burn over 115000 acres, from the gound to the canopy everything was lost. The results in the Rincons was very different. The Rincons had far more fires over the same time peroid but because most of these fires where caused by lighting and all where allowed to take there own course only one moved into the forest canopy and the total acres lost was 3500. The point being, the differance between a natural wildfire and human ignition in a forest with a long history of heavy suppression is vast. We need to forsake our 100 year old ideas about forest wildfire management, IT'S NOT WORKING. End Quote.Grew up to the most parts in Tucson.Got there in 1969.Joined the service in 1979.Kolb and Wilmot was Dirt Roads. LOL!Last time I was there to see my dad, they had houses half way up the Catalina Mtns.Californicated.Spent plenty of times on the east side of the Rincons camping, Panning and messing around.The west side is all protected, don't know about the east side any more . It was all private, leased lands when I was there.Flying J ranch had the most of it.We use to Pan Gold in Sabino Canyon a bit too. Now you have to take a Tram up it . They made a damn park out of it.Just too many people there now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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