Gold Butte

[treetop]

Reno Chris, I have a question, I read in your post about the USGS publication 1361 that has the info on Gold and Lost Basins.

I spent a long time on the web looking to see if I could find if anything like that had been done for the Gold Butte area.

So far I've found a whole lot of nothing.

Do you know if there was ever a publication done on Gold Butte.

Thanks Treetop

[Reno Chris]

There is a county report for Clark County done by the Nevada Bureau of Mines. It is free and on the internet and has a fair amount of info on the Gold Butte area.

Chris

[treetop]

There is a county report for Clark County done by the Nevada Bureau of Mines. It is free and on the internet and has a fair amount of info on the Gold Butte area.

Chris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Chris, I'll try to dig it up.

A guy can learn more about a new area by studying than he can in a week of wandering around lost. And the study can be done a little each day to try and feed our gold fix. Where as the week trips are few and far between. Treetop

[whats4supper]

I received a copy of this post from a friend, concerning gold butte, who said he was answering a question for someone else. Perhaps it can help you. It pretty much mirrors many points that I posted on Dinks:

used to go drywashing out there. It's remote and if something breaks or you are by yourself, you are absolutely by yourself. Besides drywashing, I picked up a few 'slugs; with a metal detector- nothing great, but 4-7 dwt, mostly .919 fine (had it tested); some higher/some lower.

Deposits, like the meadview stuff, tends to be in pods- hit and miss. the better locations seem to be in pothole and traps in some wash, but the unproductive overburden creates a lot of work. The other problem is the overall drainage terrain as the washes seemed to have had more intensive erosion than Meadview, meaning that more gold got into the lake or river system. Quite a few mormons in the colonies had gold mines and claims before the dam was built, and used the gold butte side to make living wages. Some of the better areas are directly west of old St Thomas, and a little farther south. but there are good spots all over; accessibility and equipment logistics is the one real challenge.

If a person had a lightweight drywasher, they could probably get in to some decent ground. However the largest obstacle is that many good spots are within the Lake Mead NP, and it would pay to be discreet, if you decide to go in an work a detector. I had firends that had boats and used to go up into washes in inlets around the temple bar area, specifically to get gold. The temple Bar area had 3 full-size dredges working the colorado river and inlet washes, before the area became a lake.

After you pass GoldButte, the placer gold area fans out 270 degrees, and like meadview, you will hit a good spot, and 5 feet away will be barren. the gold can be both in washes and on the sides of or top of the hills. Some nuggets are embedded in a brownish cemented gravel caliche.

The gold originated from a prehistoric source, since eroded away. The deposit was thousands of feet higher than the current plain. as land mass and slopes changed, gold was washed one way then another. If you look at the area geology and mountain rock bedding and strata, you will see there were rather violent upheavals and distortions. According to USGS and other academic geological studies of the whole area. the mountains on the west side of Lost basin, Jumbo Peak, and other nearby districts, are newer upheavals that the surrounding plains and washes. The grand wash is one of the oldest washes on the planet. Gravel fills in the wash are over 2 miles deep, and 1/2 mile deeper in specific areas. A one time, the Grand Wash extended up into the beaver dam area. with intrusive volcanics, the land drainages and forms have changed somewhat though there remains instact portions.

The intrusives lifted the valleys and washes, and overburden that once covered and hid the gold, has since washed away into the Colorado River system, leaving what gold there is left, pretty much on the surface. It would be likely that there are subsequent substrate layers carrying gold values, perhaps richer than that found on the surface. The problem is in penetrating the natural concrete economically to access it. Again, it is a problem of site access (and of course, whether the spot is within the Lake Mead boundary).

I think the USGS professional paper is 1061 [actually 1361]. I participated in the study, and performed some of the field sampling, but that was awhile back.

The road south of the bunkerville road is paved at least down to whitney pockets. turn off to go to Gold Butte, which is a graded road. There are quite a few lake access roads that are 2wd, but getting off those would require 4wd. roads out of gold butte south to iceberg canyon are 4wd mostly, jumbo peak west side.

If you continue east past whitney pockets, to the grand wash and south to the lake, 2wd is all you need. the road is intermittently graded. There are lots of old mines on the approach to GB, and on the western flank of Jumbo Peak. not all gold, some are mica mines.

BUBB [the person who sent it to me]

[rexb]

There's some good information in that message by Billy BUBB. I was the original recipient of that personal message. I did send it out to someone else in an E-mail.

Here the original message or question I sent to Billy BUBB:

Hello Billy Bubb,

I noted on one of your previous posts that among several places you outlined for doing some prospecting/detecting, you mentioned the area west of Gold Butte. I was just wondering if you might be able to follow-up with a bit of additional info. You mentioned the gold there can be the size and appearance of Lost Basin gold. So, I was wondering how the deposits are in terms of general scarcity and how spread out the placers are to your knowledge. Also, just wondering if you've been there in the past or if you know something of it from a friend or another good source.

Regards,

RCB

[whats4supper]

RexB: I didn't know the post from Bubb had anything to do with you. Sorry if it messed you up.

[rexb]

Ah, no problem whatsforsupper, think nothing of it. But now I'll always wonder if your Billy BUBB or not..

[whats4supper]

No. I'm not Bubb. We tramped around and worked together off and on. Bubb was vastly more skilled in technical chemistry and analysis, and my forte was mining history and process. Billy Bubb is the name allotted to a certain TommyKnocker that watched over us in Colorado. We left food and stuff for bubb, and when things were awry and we were in some sort of danger- slabbing, dropouts, blowouts, water bursts, and so on, bubb keyed us in and warned us. saved our skins and lives a few times, you better believe it. Underground, you take help (if you are wise) in any form you can get it.

[FlakMagnet]

have another beer,

keep going...

great stuff.

[gotgold]

Whats4Supper, I'll buy the next beer just to read more! _GG

[whats4supper]

Driving tunnels on the test site, I wasn't exactly ignorant, stupid maybe, but not ignorant. The government had these big borers, setup to follow a laser beam, could grind out a hole 20 feet, 30 feet, 50 feet in diameter, All we had to do was watch what part was getting chewed up, and keep the thing from clogging up. noisy as hell.

But there were side drifts that had to be driven for cameras and monitoring equipment. Aming other things, we had knowledge about gold and veinworks (A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing). I was the chief insurgent that dreamed up a plan to build a mine cart that had all the neccesary equipment to grind up ore and get the gold out. Like Mexico or Brazil (you out there Garimpo?), everybody involved, from the welder, iron stocker, quartermaster, knowing laborers, all had their hand in the take, just for insurance to keep the whole deal quiet. It worked out good for awhile until someone decided they wern't getting enough.

We were getting high grade turquoise, some gemstones and mineral specimens, and some decent gold. Had everyone been patient, it would've worked out well.

They pulled a shot that blew out of a fault. We were all standing around in our skivvies, 3 feet of snow and a 20 mph wind. Had to take cold showers to get the radiation off; three times. they took all our clothes and gave up some paper (tyvek) coveralls and booties (the shoes had to go too). So this one Adam Henry (figure out what the initials "A-H" stands for about somebody that gets your goat) starts mouthing off about his take and whats going on. Mind you, we are out there and there are all these fed with warm clothes on standing around listening.

So the next day, we went back to work, same old tunnel, new clothes and new boots, and had our cart all primed up, and up shows the FBI. they took our cart and split everybody up, told us: "Anymore gold mining and you'll be mining walls in Leavenworth." Just when we was getting into some really good ore too.

I may be Stupid, but not ignorant. translated, I may not use really good judgment at times (stupid), but I know how to configure a contraption to get what I am after (intelligent, not ignorant).

I guess while we're on this subject, lets talk about beans. If you've ever used a pressure cooker, they are great and quick (alas, I just go to a buffet nowadays). I was in the mode of figuring out what I could cook in one, and got around to trying pinto beans.

Set the pot on the stove, beans and water, lock and load (locked the lid), and went for a nap. I am dreaming a really nice dream and then there was this god-awful detonation and the smell of burnt pinto beans. I guess one of the hulls got up ther and plugged up the pressure release. Boy Howdy there was beans on the ceiling. beans on the walls, beans in the crack between the stove and the refrigerator. I looked outside and all the neighbors in my apt complex were outside talking to news reporters. Next thing I know, these firemen come up and chop down the door with a fireaxe. there were all these pieces of what used to be my pressure cooker, some of them embedded in the walls. All these people standing around, reporters too, just looking at me like I was some sort of stupid idiot (I was, but I didn't like the scrutiny anyway). after everybody got on camera and pointed at me and my apt, and after everybody left (except the manager), I was asked to leave.

Sometime after that incident, while working on the test site, we had this carryall (forerunner of the modern suburban), and everyone would load up in Mercury and head out to wherever we were assigned to go for that day. Everyone used to put food on the manifold, and during the 45 minute to 1 1/2 hour drive, lunch and food would be good and hot when we arrived. Some yahooo one morning put a can of pork and beans on the manifold and there we was driving along, oh so peaceful like, and that damn can of pork and beans blew up under the hood. Damned near crapped my pants, yessirree, damn near did. I was wide awake and didn't need no coffee, me and the other 7 yayhoos, 5 that damn near crapped their pants too.

I popped the hood and the explosion had taken out the distrubutor, coil, and a few ignition wires. sure was messy too. the mechanic that came out wasn't all to impressed with us either. wasn't my fault but I got the blame anyway.

I was sent away to perform another detail- pull up t-rail fence posts by hand, spaced 25-50 feet apart in the dead zone (cratered areas and above-ground blast areas). I had one fence line 8 miles long, two that were near 5 miles each, and a mess of other duties. Though it may have seemed to be penance at first, I really liked being out there working at my own pace and seeing history. Being the lone ranger, I was called on to do other interesting details and see stuff that not many were ever able to. Penance became a blessing.

[rexb]

Whatsf4supper,

Thanks for the clarification that you and "Billy BUBB" are in fact two individuals and not one mysterious person. Also, I thought it would be good to mention that I enjoyed the interesting reading on the above posts. We ought to have you and Garimpo collaborate on a nonfiction book of your experiences. Or maybe one could combine the two and write up a movie script. Anyway, I've said that before to Don (Garimpo) so I will not belabor the point.

[whats4supper]

humor makes the unbearable conditions a little more bearable. that and recognition of the fact that we all go through a learning process from naive to informed.

If you laugh at me, chances are, I will laugh right along with you. You know, live and learn.

Some things and situations can be downright messed up through no fault of your own (see the signature line for some direction there). But while you are dealing the problem during and in the aftermath, your mind starts whirling around so you can see the whole thing from a different angle. Some people cuss. Some people Pray. some people Cuss and Pray. ain't no deals that can be worked out. I don't think god wants a deal derived from duress.

The only deal that goes is some hard effort and struggle, and the blatant result of a stupid decision staring you right in the face. But the fact of the matter is, that without some daring and stupid decision making, human society wouldn't be where it is today, for better and for worse.

It takes daring, testing, invention, and wandering around in careless abandon to build progress; whether or not that progrees is applicable to one's own life, or of those around them. In other words, You'll never know about yourself if you never try something you haven't tried in the past.

My own little motto (Actually, I have a whole lot of them) is: "I can do whatever someone else can do. Maybe not in the same way or with the same result. But the other person has proven that it can be done by a determined human spirit. After the first try, practice makes perfect!"

If you think I'm full of BS, just read the other posts on this site. It started with Rob selling a gadget he knew about. since then, rough 1000 people have gone off on their own quests to make Rob's reality their own reality. All geniuses have things they are really good at and things they are really lousy at.

Rob could probably inform you of ways to either get or avoid, electrocution around high-tension wire. Depending on which way you could with the advice, you could either stay real alive, or get real dead. Rob probably has a few other tricks up his sleeve about other things too, like what to grab on or not, how to climb a pole, how to splice, how high a guy can go on a cherrypicker before he gets a nose bleed, the correct way to drop a nut from 70 feet so as to cause the most damage, and trade vernacular that is handy to know when working among other linemen. Rob is probably a pretty intelligent guy in a lot of areas. Maybe some of that knowledge came from some stupid mistakes he made (of course, you can only get fatally electrocuted once, so I don't think he pulled any stupid mistakes there.).

I knew a few really smart people whose one goal was to be able to sink a 16d nail with a hammer, or some other seemingly trivial pursuit of the working class. It takes one that's good at something, to teach another. If that person listens well, and follows the correct sequence of actions, they too may eventually achieve mastery. That's how it is with all of us: Find a good mentor and pay attention. And be a good Mentor to others that want to learn.

[whats4supper]

Reno Chris, I have a question, I read in your post about the USGS publication 1361 that has the info on Gold and Lost Basins.

I spent a long time on the web looking to see if I could find if anything like that had been done for the Gold Butte area.

So far I've found a whole lot of nothing.

Do you know if there was ever a publication done on Gold Butte.

   Thanks Treetop

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you look at the REXB link on Dinks, you can read the whole book online. The PP 1361 covers portions and geology of Gold Butte as well. It is a newer publication that the Bureau of Nevada Mines report.

You can also request (purchase) a copy of the report from USGS in Renton VA. It has a few maps of interest, used to specify the sample points and old mines/prospects in the area of review.

If I was you, treetop, I would get a few 7.5 minute maps of the area for the most detail, most have been updated as of 1980-90. A couple of other maps would also be of importance: a regular 1-100,000 map (boulder City, i think), and a blm land use map, same name and grid, has land ownership overlays including patented mining land. If you can locate some olf 15 minute maps, these give quite a bit more local detail and brings the features of the 7.5s into zoom out perspective.

If it's land you are looking for, the cheapest route is to check the county assessor's office for land parcels in tax arrears (true in every county), and get you name on a mailing list for when these come up for auction. The typical patented mining claim starts at 20 1/2 acres; some up to 300 acres or more in size. patented mining land is no longer federal domain land. it is real estate that is bought and sold like any other real estate, and can be used for whatever purpose allowed by local zoning. It may have started out a mine, but it could become your second cabin home, rv park, your hideaway, or whatever you want to develop it as.

Typically, mining parcels go for roughly $5000 in auction, in Clark County; some more than that. If you parcel is located (you have to do the research yourself before the auction) within a national park, it is still your private land, and can be a real deal. Mining parcels in arrears are listed along with house lots, and other land parcels throughout the county.

Agan, you may want to check the rolls of Maricopa, Mohave, Yavapai (AZ), Clark, Lincoln, Nye, Esmeralda (NV), Iron (UT), San Bernardino, Riverside (CA)- whatever county you want to know about to see what may be coming up for auction. Of course, any mining property includes the mineral and water rights.

Lotsa Luck... oh that's another guy. Lot of luck Treetop!

[dutch john]

Wow--- ol dutch john here with a question... I have had a copy of USGS PP

1361 since Feb 1992. My question: Does anyone know who is shown... fig.60, pg. 95; and is this just a random filler photo... or was it that of the drywasher and operator who was used to "evaluate" some of the information scattered throughout the text.... ?.

[whats4supper]

Some of the guys used hand crank Sam Radner outfits. Light and portable. ( you can get these from the Lifestyles Store (Mohave John) in Hesperia. Good for guys that are more used to calluses from lifting pencils. You notice the guy doesn't even have a Particle mask? a big no-no!, but then, maybe they wernt running yards of dirt for the test.

Mine is a gasoline engine powered job (why eat dirt when you can stand off to one side, aways away from the action?). My deal is shovel a little, swig a little. My 'tests' are 3-6 cubic yards (for accuracy). If you're going to drag all of the stuff out and set it up, might as well get into the swing (of the pick), and flush the arteries via a cardio exercise route and solvents from working up a thirst for a beer or two...

Mind you, I am not really knocking the Sam outfits, they are really efficient and some come with an electric motor setup. Great sampling tool too. I just have something that works for me, and am well acquainted with its quirks.

Dutch John: that was probably one of the guys who did the testing, only Billy Bubb would know for sure.

If you notice the grains of what looks like sand in some of the photographs. That was really the cleaned gold paticles they got from sampling. I would think the guys doin the testing were pretty good at using a drywasher, judging by the samples.

[dutch john]

Gosh... Sam Radding was an old friend of mine... we went back many years. Over 20 years... Sam is now "gone." Suddenly.... He was into small boat building and into making guitars.... I cannot seem to find out just what happened to Sam.... But his books seem to be still printed...

[treetop]

Whats4supper, Thanks for all of the good tips and advice. I've made a list of maps to order and when I check out tonight I'll set my printer to print the USGS papers.

There are a lot of us that read a lot on the forums but post very little.

To have someone resopnd like you have makes us feel safe in asking what might be some really stupid questions. Thanks for the info and the encuoragement. Treetop

[29prospector]

Charlie,

You mentioned co-authoring a paper on Riverside & San Bernardino counties(

I also co-authored a treatise of California Mining history regarding work in Inyo, San Bernardino, and Riverside counties, for the BLM, including many portions destined for future wilderness designation).

Do you have a copy of the treatise available or know where it might be available? My Mom & Dad moved to 29 Palms in 1951 and I started tromping around the desert from age 6 to present. My father had started prospecting the Dale District and the Goldpark District in 1927 and knew most of the oldtimers that had worked in both districts during their hayday. I've been in the process of attempting to put together a story about the area from a prospector's view so any written or verbal information I can find I'm thankful for.

My father worked in the Music Valley area and had claimed a large portion of the rare earth deposits in the area. We lost the fight to keep the claims or at least get compensated for them when the Desert Protection Act was passed. This all said and done, any information you might be willing to let go of I would really appreciate.

Bob

[whats4supper]

Much of the historical value essays and research were later incorporated into a book named Desert Fever, a now rare book that some libraries have. all of that info was prior to the establishment of the California Desert Conservation Area and the Mohave Scenic area, a few areas that have since routed out homesteaders, miners, prospectors, and ranchers.

Off the KelBaker road, going SE out of Baker, you'll come to a fair size hill or small rocky mountain, just to the south of the road. That hill had the Paymaster gold mine, a rich outcrop way out in the middle of nowhere. It's one of those places that I'd love to rework with a modern detector.

[FlakMagnet]

(snik...pop)

...the top coming off another beer...

(handing it across the electronic connection)

Go whats4supper!

It's all worthy.

[29prospector]

Charlie,

Thanks for the info. I'm like you I tend to mumble and ramble on about things. There are so many stories I've heard over the years from the oldtimers sitting by camp fires that I've come to realize that I myself have become the oldtimer. Thats why I'm trying to get written down all the ramblins and make some sort of sence out of it all.

Bob

[FlakMagnet]

29 Prospector,

you just ramble away there bud,

it's a pleasure to read.

regards,

[29prospector]

29 Prospector,

you just ramble away there bud,

it's a pleasure to read.

regards,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks.... I started a new post about hardrock mining, prospecting and what ever. Hopefully we all can share a small bit of humor and or knowledge with one another

Happy huntin,

Bob

[29prospector]

Bob:  the BLM treatise was done in the late 1970's.  I worked with a few guys out of CalState Northridge: Gary Shumway, Larry Vredenberg, and Russell Hartill, compiling and checking data.

Much of the historical value essays and research were later incorporated into a book that those 3 collaborated on, named Desert Fever, a now rare book that some libraries have (such as UNLV Special Collections).  all of that info was prior to the establishment of the California Desert Conservation Area and the Mohave Scenic area, a few areas that have since routed out homesteaders, miners, prospectors, and ranchers.

Off the KelBaker road, going SE out of Baker, you'll come to a fair size hill or small rocky mountain, just to the south of the road.  That hill had the Paymaster gold mine, a rich outcrop way out in the middle of nowhere.  It's one of those places that I'd love to rework with a modern detector.  I found gold with an old TR toy and with a white's 4900, but the place is so monitored by rangers traversing the road out of Baker, that is would be like working near a fresh cowpie, and trying to keep the flies off. 

After work on the project, I was sort of drifting in and out of associations with geologists and the feds, and left the scene for good about 1985 or so.

I think Larry Vredenberg had claims in the Shadow Mtns, NE of Valley Wells & I-15.  Most were marginal gold claims but there was a good showing of Platinum GM.  They later asked me to give brief on the then current condition of the Duplex Mine and mill ruins in Searchlight, as they had an investor that wanted to go in and attempt a reopening.  Of course, my report was negative and I reported that anyone wanting to go back in and open portions of the mine would have to have a cash wad of at least $32,000,000.

Oh, there is plenty of highgrade still there, but it is at least 1/2 mile down.  the man who owned the mine and kept it right up to his death, had hired some contract miners (leasers) and knowing they weren't go to get more time (the owner knew they were stealing from him), pulled timbers and messed up the shaft.  Another ME, who lived in Searchlight, showed me a pillar in the Big Casino in 1995.  We has a plan to go in from one side (from the outside) and get it out, but he keeled over, and now, I don't even want to get near it.

Damn it! ramblin again..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know thats the 3rd time I've heard about weird things going on in Searchlight. In 1984 My partner Jeff and I were approached by 2 business type(in suits & ties in the summer in the desert) wanting to know if we would do some ore sampling at one of the mines in Searchlight. First, I'm not sure how they got our names cause we were not advertizing and anything like that. We did all our own sampling and help out a couple friends with there stuff so we were a little set back by it all. We had heard stories about the mines in Searchlight and were'nt really keen on getting involved. I talked with Jim Sharp of Draco Mines in Tucson and said these guy were trying to settle a court problem but could not find anyone to do the work. Needless to say we were'nt interested either, besides we were working with Draco and had several of our claims leased out. I think my father made the most money out his claims just by leasing them out. He was well into his 80's and just want to finish his design idea for a concentration table. Thats whole another story.

Bob