IMPORTANT INFO for DD COIL USERS


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Hello All,

Well over the years I have seen several things people do wrong with their DD coils while swinging them. I'm going to point out one important issue first and then will follow with a few more.

You should always understand how a coil operates and where the electromagnetic field is the strongest to get the best performance. Most know with a DD coil you get a straight electromagnetic field that goes from the top to bottom of the coil. With larger DD coils you are more likely to miss gold on either side of the coil since the hottest section is right down the middle.

About a month ago I saw a detectorist working a large wash with a DD coil. What I observed was the fact he wasn't swinging the DD coil from side to side, but rather pushing the coil in front of him while walking. When you do this you're really defeating the purpose of a DD coil, which gets the best performance swung side-to-side. When you push the coil in front of you with minimal swinging, you're only getting a narrow detection band. It's really easy to miss a lot of gold this way, but I see it all the time. Strange, the dealer that sold this person the detector and coil never told him anything about how the coils work.… :(

It's kind of tough to describe what I'm talking about through text, so I drew up a quick sketch so most would understand. If you click on the picture below you will get a larger picture that is easier to view.

In the picture you will see a conventional DD coil, and then the electromagnetic field of the coil if you "push the coil" or "swing it side-to-side." You can see from the diagram that you really loose a lot of area by not swinging the coil. If you're using a larger DD coil in an area with depth you're really loosing the most performance.

This is just one tip that some might want to consider while using a DD coil in the field. I see a lot of people "walking" their coils in a straight line up washes, but even more when they are working the hillsides or crossing the hillsides from one gully to another.

I will post more of these tips in the near future. This is just an example of what you learn when you purchase a detector from me and go out for field instructions. ;) Keep in mind, most of the best tips/tricks will only be giving during instructions! :P

P.S. Keep in mind there are some exceptions to the diagram below, but for the most part it will give you an idea on the detector area lost if you don't swing a DD from side to side. Would love to hear your feedback also.

Hope you enjoyed,

Rob Allison

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Hi Rob,

Thanks for this posting for sure. Sometimes we forget that not everyone is in the know about how metal detectors work and especially coil theory. So I appreciate your efforts and I hope those that don't quite understand how they work will see it better in your diagram. God Bless Rob and much success to you my friend.

John Tomlinson, CET

John's Detectors

Best in the West ! ;)

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Hello Guys,

I also love to hunt behind the guys that use bad techniques. Usually after a few nuggets I will tell them ... :P I see a lot of guys using bad habits, some probably don't know any better. I have a few more techniques for DD users that should help. I will post them in the near future.

Bob - Why do you think I'm "left" handed? From my handwritting? I'm actually two handed! :blink:

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Hey Rob

You'r saying that I have to buy a detector from you to get the good tips?

How about all the business we give you?

Since my boss (wife) won't let me travel to AZ, would you come to Ca and give me a class if I bought a detector from you? :P JK!

This is a good trip and people that don't know how a detector works should take the time and ask questions, know the machine.

Over the weekend while searching bedrock, I realized I had to keep twisting the Wallaby "to see" into the deep bedrock crevices that were on an angle.

My biggest problem was that I was working a high river bench that was all cemented together and needed a jackhammer to get to the nuggets.

I knew I was in a good spot when I first got to the bench and discovered a small nugget laying ontop of the bedrock as I was tuning! :D

Keep the tips comming!

Alan

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Hello Alan,

I know many of the people on this forum are great friends and customers, so I try to share as much information as I can. Normally people can see who is sincere and willing to help, so plenty of business comes my way regardless. I just like to razz you guys a bit to keep you all on your toes! :D

Yes, with the Wallaby and being it's DD Pro, you will have to lift the coil up to get down into the cracks and crevices. The smaller elliptical DD's, such as the Joey DD Pro, work better for shallow bedrock areas with cracks/crevices. However, the Wallaby DD Pro will still work, but you won't find the 1-2 grainers like the Joey DD Pro. You won't have any problem finding the 4-5 grainers in the cracks if you pay attention. Getting the noise of the coil into the cracks with the technique you mentioned will give you a better response.

Thanks for the reply back and I will keep the tips coming.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Thanks Rob

Another technique I use is to slow down while swinging a DD vs a Mono.

The detection "window" of a DD is much smaller than that of a mono for shallow nuggets, since it's straight down the middle, if I swing to fast, I have found I missed targets.

Where Big Ed and I detect, it's tough going for a Mono so we use the DD coils.

You sink your pick one time and it's covered in Magnetite!

Your more than welcome to elaberate on this Rob. :D

Thanks

Alan

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Dear Rob;

Wow, I thought that everybody knew that you had to swing the coil from side to side. Something else about the DD Pro coil. Here are a few things that I've lerned recently. Once a suspected target has been located, be sure and make WIDE swings over the target area to give the potential target a chance to recover or else it will become saturated with energy from the coil and disappear for a moment or two. Those DD Pro coils pump a LOT of energy into the ground and if a person hovers over a suspected target, it can become saturated just like the surrounding matrix and effectively mask itself out of the return signal. Also, bigger coils need to be swung slower than smaller ones. The bigger the loop, the slower the swing speed. When I'm using my 18" mono I need to cut my swing speed down below half of what I am swinging when I am using an 8" mono. Oh and something else. Keep the darned thing level at all times. Tilting the coil not only cuts down on depth, it also changes the ground balance because the distance of the coil face to the ground is not even across the entire face. The detector can't compensate for this phenonemon, so the result is an altered GB and that can result in lost gold. This is especially true because in areas where you can possibly tilt the coil are spots like around rocks, tree roots, etc. These are also the very same spots where those nuggies are very likely to be resting so it's very important to keep the coil as level as possible, especially in these places. Just like in drag racing, if you lift, you lose! The larger the loop, the more important it becomes to keep it as level as possible at all times. Here is another good tip. It has to do with balancing. Nope, not ground balancing, but actually physically balancing the detector. When you change coils it's always a good idea to grab the bungee cord and dangle the detector from it, then loosen the bungee knuckle and slide it up or down the upper shaft until the detector is balanced. Then tighten the knuckle back up and adjust the bungee to where the coil face is about 1/2" above the surface of the ground. THis really goes a long ways in keeping your arm and shoulder from becoming tired and this is how I am able to compensate for the weight of my 18" mono coil. This is also why I feel that the argument about Coiltek vs. those super duper lightweight Brand X coils is null and void. If you have a properly balanced detector/coil combo then you should never feel the weight of the coil on the end of the shaft. Your swinging arm shouldn't support the weight of the detector/coil, rather, the weight should be supported by your upper body and your swinging arm should only be used to guide the coil along the ground. I am too tired to think of anything else right now, but I am sure that there are others who have some great tips about coils. Let's hear them folks!

Your friend;

LAMAR

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Hello Lamar and others,

You would be amazed how many people walk their DD coils straight in front of them. I have seen it over and over and decided to make a post about it. Another thing people need to consider when hunting for small gold is using the noise of the DD around obstacles. When you're hunting for small gold near the surface or big gold at depth near the base of an obstacle, you really need to use the front of the coil to scan those areas. It's amazing how much you can miss by hunting lazy! :P

The DD Pro's do pump more juice into the ground and create a much stronger electromagnetic field. This does increase sensitivity to smaller gold and allows you to gain a bit more depth. Coiltek claims they are using about 20% more power than conventional DD coils on the market right now.

As for coil speed, the PI seems to respond much slower than VLF's. However, the GP series, especially the GP3500 seem to have a quicker response over the SD's in my opinion. You should still use the motto, "Low and Slow!" :D

I also agree with keeping the coil right on the ground, if not scrubbing the ground. An inch off the ground is an inch lost in depth. In very rocky or thick areas a small coil might get better depth due to the fact it can get down near the ground level.

When it comes to coils, it's a matter of personal preference. The large plastic coils from 18-inch and larger can become heavy if not balance properly. This is where a "heavy duty bungee cord" or "detector swing arm" plays an important role. I never had a problem swinging coils from 17-inch ellipital/14-inch round and smaller all day.

P.S. When should I book my flight to Bolivia? Hehe ... :wacko:

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Hello Lamar and others,

  You would be amazed how many people walk their DD coils straight in front of them.  I have seen it over and over and decided to make a post about it.  Another thing people need to consider when hunting for small gold is using the noise of the DD around obstacles.  When you're hunting for small gold near the surface or big gold at depth near the base of an obstacle, you really need to use the front of the coil to scan those areas.  It's amazing how much you can miss by hunting lazy!  :P

The DD Pro's do pump more juice into the ground and create a much stronger electromagnetic field.  This does increase sensitivity to smaller gold and allows you to gain a bit more depth.  Coiltek claims they are using about 20% more power than conventional DD coils on the market right now. 

As for coil speed, the PI seems to respond much slower than VLF's.  However, the GP series, especially the GP3500 seem to have a quicker response over the SD's in my opinion.  You should still use the motto, "Low and Slow!"  :D

I also agree with keeping the coil right on the ground, if not scrubbing the ground.  An inch off the ground is an inch lost in depth.  In very rocky or thick areas a small coil might get better depth due to the fact it can get down near the ground level. 

When it comes to coils, it's a matter of personal preference.  The large plastic coils from 18-inch and larger can become heavy if not balance properly.  This is where a "heavy duty bungee cord" or "detector swing arm" plays an important role.  I never had a problem swinging coils from 17-inch ellipital/14-inch round and smaller all day. 

P.S.  When should I book my flight to Bolivia?  Hehe ...  :wacko:

Take care,

Rob Allison

:D Hey guy's, Butch & Sundance :P

I notice when using the CT Platypus in the creek, underwater in gives a soft responce, compared to dry land, I wonder if its a saturation thing? or halo? The creek is large year round, wondering if the sand & gravels rubbing the nug thats stuck in a creves, causes the same effect?

one thing for sure DD Pro Platypus & 3500 in fixed deep, and lil green button gets the yellow stuff :blink:

P.S. about using Platypus in water, seal coil cover inside and outside edges, if a little water leaks between coil cover & coil it gets noisey...

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Dear Rob;

Whenever you want to come to Bolivia just let me know and I'll make sure to clean up the spare room for you! If you're serious about seeing South America let me know and we will plan an expedition for you. Plan on at least a couple of weeks though. Anything less than 2 weeks will be a waste of time IMHO because of the crappy transportation here, ie, bad roads, no roads, inconsistant aircraft schedules, river flooding, etc, ad nauseum. Just last week there were over 1,000 vehicles stranded on the MAJOR artery between Santa Cruz and Cochabamba for 4 DAYS! Yep, 4 days! Luckily there was a cattle truck in the bunch of vehicles that were stuck so it turned into a big roadside BBQ. BTW, I was experimenting with the Coiltek Joey mono and DD Pro coils yesterday by using my smallest target in lightly mineralized ground and guess what? There is NO difference between the Joey mono, the Joey DD Pro and the Minelab 8" mono coils in depth or sensitivity while using the SD2100. You really should advertise the fact that the Joey mono has the same performance profile as the ML 8" mono loop, but the advantages of the Joey mono stand out clearly because the CTK Joey mono is almost half the width of the ML 8" mono and it's only $20.00 more than the 8" mono. The Joey mono can really get itself into some tight quarters and this can become a huge advantage in searching broken bedrock, around the roots of big trees, around rocks and boulders, etc.

Big Ed:

The reason why the signal response on the Platypus becomes slightly quieter in the water versus dry ground is because the water acts as a buffer between the coil and the target. Water has more mass than air, therefore the signal becomes somewhat dimmed as it travels from the coil to the target and then returns to the coil face. Compare this phenonenom to yelling at a friend in an empty room, then yelling again at same volume, only through a thick blanket. The sound becomes muffled because the blanket absorbs some of the high frequency vibrations. The same thing happens to the detectors signal too. The waters muffles some of the vibrations and thus the signal gets softer. I don't reckon that folks living in Arizona would know much about using the Platypus coil in water though, as I suspect that it's sort of dry out that way. I happened to notice that all of the stamps on the box that Rob sent to me were attached to the box with staples. :D

Your friend;

LAMAR

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Hi Lamar,

Now what makes you think we don't see any rain up here???

Heck, in the last six months, I know that I saw the street damp, at least once, and once it rained enough to spot the dust on my car, so that I had to wash it.

Was around 110 today and the best is yet to come. :rolleyes:

Bob T.

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Hi Lamar,

That is an interesting test of those three coils. I have recently been asked what

was my opinion of the Joey vs the 8" Commander mono, and although I had no

factual basis for the answer (and said so), I said as far as I could tell it was a toss-up.

Your more factually based answer seems to bear this out.

I love the 8"mono I am using, but I always look with admiration when the Joey owners

I hunt with, are able to manuver their coils into slightly tighter quarters than I can.

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Dear Rob;

Whenever you want to come to Bolivia just let me know and I'll make sure to clean up the spare room for you! If you're serious about seeing South America let me know and we will plan an expedition for you. Plan on at least a couple of weeks though. Anything less than 2 weeks will be a waste of time IMHO because of the crappy transportation here, ie, bad roads, no roads, inconsistant aircraft schedules, river flooding, etc, ad nauseum. Just last week there were over 1,000 vehicles stranded on the MAJOR artery between Santa Cruz and Cochabamba for 4 DAYS! Yep, 4 days! Luckily there was a cattle truck in the bunch of vehicles that were stuck so it turned into a big roadside BBQ. BTW, I was experimenting with the Coiltek Joey mono and DD Pro coils yesterday by using my smallest target in lightly mineralized ground and guess what? There is NO difference between the Joey mono, the Joey DD Pro and the Minelab 8" mono coils in depth or sensitivity while using the SD2100. You really should advertise the fact that the Joey mono has the same performance profile as the ML 8" mono loop, but the advantages of the Joey mono stand out clearly because the CTK Joey mono is almost half the width of the ML 8" mono and it's only $20.00 more than the 8" mono. The Joey mono can really get itself into some tight quarters and this can become a huge advantage in searching broken bedrock, around the roots of big trees, around rocks and boulders, etc.

Big Ed:

The reason why the signal response on the Platypus becomes slightly quieter in the water versus dry ground is because the water acts as a buffer between the coil and the target. Water has more mass than air, therefore the signal becomes somewhat dimmed as it travels from the coil to the target and then returns to the coil face. Compare this phenonenom to yelling at a friend in an empty room, then yelling again at same volume, only through a thick blanket. The sound becomes muffled because the blanket absorbs some of the high frequency vibrations. The same thing happens to the detectors signal too. The waters muffles some of the vibrations and thus the signal gets softer. I don't reckon that folks living in Arizona would know  much about using the Platypus coil in water though, as I suspect that it's sort of dry out that way. I happened to notice that all of the stamps on the box that Rob sent to me were attached to the box with staples. :D

Your friend;

LAMAR

Thanks Lamar,

I was asking Rob, I told him it sounded off low-high stretched out, but felt like I needed an amp, although it gives a definite signal responce with blackwidow headphones.... I'm very Impressed with Platypus coil;-)

Thanks again LAMAR, answers my questions & thoughts :D

Take care,

Ed

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Dear group;

It's my pleasure everybody! I am very suprised at how far the techology has advanced in the last few years. It used to be that epi shaped coils were best for DD windings and round shapes were best for mono windings because of the signal patterns, but this is no longer true. Now you can use the coil shape to use your surface terrain requirements instead of choosing a pre-determined coil shape based on it's winding configuration. Here is something else that I am quickly becoming aware of too. An SD2100 with a decent amplifier and the Pocket Rocket can bump the performance profile of the detector right into the GP performance range, without all of the hassles of learning all of those knobs, buttons and switches. The more I play around with the SD2100 the more I am starting to appreciate both it AND my GP300 for what they are. They are both excellent units and both have the pluses and minuses.

Your friend;

LAMAR

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Rob . This is a good tip. For pushing and probing the mono coils are far more effective in the tight spots. The DDs on open ground where a good wide swing is possible would possibly give you better overall coverage than a mono. As you say , and as I always say , you have to know what each of your coils is capable of and when to change coils to get the maximum out of your P.I.. I rarely go a day without at least one coil change. Betsy and I got these little beauties with the 8" round and the 14" round monos yesterday before the heat really set in. 1/2 ounce by noon. Betsy got the 3.4 gram nugget on the right side of the quarter. She's getting deadly with her trusty SD2100.----Bob

post-100-1149439818_thumb.jpg

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Hello Bob,

There's no doubt knowing when to use a certain coil will give you better success. I also agree that on flat ground a DD would give you better coverage and probably better results if all the gold was somewhat shallow. The DD really work well on the GP series, unlike some of the results I had with them on the SD's series over the years. It's a must to have a regulated battery system on the SD's if you choose to use DD coils in my opinion. If I can get away with a mono, I'm going to use a mono! :D

Congrats on the new nuggets you and Betsy scored. There's no doubt you're probably the best nuggethunter in Arizona, if not the Southwest.

Take care,

Rob Allison

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Dear group;

I think that our esteemed and very highly regarded associate Montana Bob may have hit upon the ultimate detecting combo, that is, him with a GP3500 and his detecting pard swinging an SD2100. I suspect that they are both working the same ground with both detectors, and although it would be impossible to use both in close proximity to one another, I am quite certain they are hammering the same terrain twice in one day. Knowing what I already know about Montana Bob Dansie, I also suspect that he is armed with a DD coil while the SD2100 is saddled with a mono coil. This is a very wise and intelligent manuver, IMHO. This is the exact strategy that I am using here in Bolivia as well. Also, while the statement that the SD2100 doesn't handle DD coils nearly as well as the GP series will, there is a bit more to that statement too. The SD2100 (or at least MY SD2100) seems to be better in highly mineralized ground with a mono coil than my GP3000 with the same mono attached. It seems that if I am in highly mineralized ground with my GP3K I need to switch from a mono to a DD Pro coil in order to get the threshold to simmer down, BUT I seem to be able to tune out the mineralization better with my SD2100 whilst keeping the same mono coil on it. Granted, it DOES take longer to tune and balance the SD2100, quite a bit longer in fact (ya just gotta love that TUNE button on the GP series) but the end results are that I am able to use a mono coil with my SD2100 more of the time instead of having to switch to a DD as I need to do with my GP3K. Also, with the SD2100, if you find yourself getting into some nasty mineralization and you can't seem to balance it out, instead of giving up, try a smaller diameter mono first. It makes sense when you stop and think about it. An 18" mono coil *sees* a lot of ground and so it also sees a lot of ground minerals too. If there are too many minerals in the grounds they reflect back the signal strong enough to distort the return signal as ground clutter or a broken threshold. Switching to a smaller mono coil effectively reduces the amount of ground that the detector *sees* thus it also *sees* less of the ground minerals, and hence the threshold smooths itself out. This is VERY evident when switching from an 18" mono coil (a Coiltek coil of course, as one must remain forever loyal to the Orange) to an 11" mono coil, although I've found that switching from the 18" mono down to the 14" mono has produced very satisfactory results thus far. Also, comparing a stock configured GP3000 to a stock SD2100 is not the whole story either. With both detectors in stock factory trim, the GP3000 REALLY whups the SD2100s behind, BUT with the simple addition of an audio amplifier and a Coiltek Pocket Rocket lith-ion battery pack, the performance of the SD2100 climbs right into the same performance range as the GP series and perhaps beyond. Of course, with the GP series, you have the option to be able to optimize the performance of the detector through the use of it's enhancement switches, such as DEEP and SENSITIVE, but good Lord, who wants to keep pounding the same ground over and over, searching for that almost sub-atomic Au particle, when there is so much terrain that that yet to be searched? Not me because I am hunting big game and time spent is time wasted, IMHO. It's much faster to pound the same ground with an SD2100 and a GP series detector at the same time. However when a nugget (any nugget) is uncovered then all bets are off. Big photo taking size nuggets are forgotten about and the search is on for those small bread & butter nuggies, however I also hope and pray that there is one big lunker hiding in the patch too. Therefore, the patch should be hammered with every coil you own, from multiple directions until you are ABSOLUTELY sure that you've covered every square inch of turf. Even then, it often pays to return to the same area and hit it again a year or so later, or even more often, depending on the amount of errosion that the area sees. In short, I am glad that I made the decision to purchase an SD2100 with an armful of new coils instead of a GP3500 because I feel that I've increased my nugget hunting capabilities by a factor of at least 4. I also suspect quite strongly that our detecting guru, Mr. Montana Bob Dansie has the very same theory in mind as I do, even though he may be a bit hesitant to admit this. Oh sure, there are LOTS of possible reasons why he using a GP3500 and his wife is equipped with an SD2100 BUT there may be more to it than what is usually spoken about. Stuff like "She doesn't detect nearly as often as I do, therefore a new top-o-the-line detector just doesn't make financial sense" or "she is not nearly as intelligent as me and all of those knobs, switches and buttons will just confuse her" or what about this one ? "She really wishes to participate, but she is beeping more for the exercise and weight loss, plus the getting a dark rich tan than the hopes of really finding a nice nugget" or "she is such a loving and caring spouse that she feels it necessary to accompany me on detecting excursions and she doesn't wish to show me up, therefore she wants to use a less capable detector than me". These are all very good reasons and I should know because I've used them too, but the deep hidden theory remains, there ARE certain instances where the SD2100 seems to be able to reach down further than the GP series and thus it pays to have both detectors working the same field at the same time. In closing I feel that a GP series and an SD2100, both working the same turf at the same time with different coils is proving to be a deadly combo.

Your friend;

LAMAR

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Lamar,

I think the GP series is supposed to beat the sd series with smaller sized nuggets being found at depth. Does your personal research bear this out by any chance?

Rex

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Dear rexb;

OK, the debate between the GP and SD series pretaining to smaller sized targets at depth is true, but ONLY up to a certain point. I've discovered that small targets can be picked out of the surrounding matrix by an SD2100 BUT the signal is MUCH fainter than it is with the GP series detectors. An amplifier/enhancer really picks out those small signal variations and it goes a long ways in even the playing field. I feel this is why experienced detectorists are still having great success with their SD2100s. To sum up, in my experiments the SD2100 is able to pick up the same sized targets at the same depths as the GP3000 IF the detectorist is able to distinguish the target return from the background clutter. The audio circuitry on the GP series is incredible and that is why the detectorist is able to find smaller nugs at greater depths than before using the SD series detectors. An enhanced SD2100 in the hands of a person who can concentrate on the small audio variances will have the same success rate as the person who is using the GP series.

Your friend;

LAMAR

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Lamar. I actually hardly ever use a DD while using the GP. I used the DDs quite a bit when using the SDs . My findings have been that the GP3500 is far superior on hot ground than the SD2100 was while using mono coils. In fact as far as I'm concerned the GP3500 has almost rendered the DD coils useless on most of the ground that I run into. There are tricks to taming the hot ground with mono coils which I won't get into here. I carry a DD coil in my bag but it rarely sees the light of day. What Betsy and I do is run different size monos. She sticks to the 8" or the 14 E . I often run a 14" or 16" round mono. It just depends on the situation. Thanks for the compliments guys but no way am I even close to the best . I may be one of the most persistant. Betsy calls it obsessive. I just spent 4 hours modifying some of my gear . Never satisfied with how things work from the factory or the instruction manuals. I just gotta try new ideas all the time. This new mod is going to be killer and might share it if it works like I think it will.

By the way Betsy could have had my old GP3000 but she just likes the SD 2100. The deepest nugget I have ever found was with the SD2000 but boy did it leave a lot of nuggets at 10 inches that the 2100 screamed at. I know some patches that the GPs cleaned up heaps of nuggets that the pros with the 2100s missed. I also know of some that were hit hard with the SD2100 and there was nothing left for the GPs. Betsys Sd 2100 will soon have a lithium battery and an audio enhancer since she won't upgrade detectors. Even without the mods it is still one of the best detectors ever made . In the top three I would say. I could go back to the 2100 and still find plenty of gold and enjoy running it but I would quit detecting if I had to go back to a VLF ----Bob

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Mod's Montana?

(cool)

I will take this opportunity to once again

sing the praises of a mod you came up with;

http://arizonaoutback.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1658

This mod for eliminating coil cable falsing

has changed my detecting experience for the better.

I urge everyone who has not read about this to consider it.

It's cheap

It's easy

It works

regards,

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