Claim Jumpers caught

[Nuggetslayer]

Well looks like a couple of local guys got caught claim jumping here is a link to the story

local claim jumpers

[AZNuggetBob]

They may have been huntin for pieces of Skylab hoping they would glow in the dark? wrong contentent? minor detail. ok Id never make a good defense lawyer. AznuggetBob

[kamikaze]

Wondering what the penalty is for claimjumping? One or two slaps on the wrist? The punishment for crime these days is hardly a deterrent... The fine might be only a fraction of their take. the guy that ran off probably was carrying the poke.

[Nuggetslayer]

They got thrown in jail. They got a court date it is a Federal Offense to claim jump pretty serious really.

[sawmill]

These guys were not claim jumping,they were high grading,

or what is known as mineral theft,just common low life thieves.

Claim Jumping is over filing or trying to deprive a claimant of

his claim,by devious means.

Just because some reporter doesn't know the difference ,its still

high grading.

Those same reporters call any big machine a bulldozer whether

its a front end loader or a trackhoe.

Mineral theft is a felony,and can be grand theft depending on the

amount stolen. Also they can be held liable for any damage.

[FlakMagnet]

Sawmill,

Thanks for pointing out the differences.

These guys were robbing someone of their personal property

the same as if they'd gone into their house.

There should be no tolerance for criminals like these low-life's.

They give everyone who hunts for metals and minerals honestly and diligently

a bad name.

Flak

[COLORADO BOB]

Aaaa-MEN---------Flak

Bob T.

[nuggethunting]

Hello Guys,

Sounds like these guys were probably sneaking in and hunting the area a bunch before they got caught. I know if you're out there and someone spots you on their property and you don't know you are on a claim they are not going to arrest you and haul you off to jail.

Many of us have wondered onto other claims not knowing. I have a bunch of claims now and if I caught someone on them I wouldn't be running down to the Serriff's office unless they continued to come back after they have been told. I would tell them in a nice matter these are my claims and we don't allow any prospecting on them unless you have permission. If the guy told me to Fuck OFF and stated he would come back anytime, that is a different story.

Keep in mind, not everyone can spend hours researching areas and some only have a day or so off to play in the hills. I'm not going to try to arrest anyone I see walking on my claim. This is just me, I love this hobby and I know others do also.

I think each senerio is different, but keep in mind when you first started you probably had no clue where to start (like many of these guys).

Take care,

Rob Allison

[FlakMagnet]

Hi Rob,

It's pretty obvious that these guys were not "mistakenly" on this claim;

they had flashlights and rock hammers, they knew where to go and they knew what they were doing.

It was deliberate high grading.

Whatever the other part of your post was about, mistakenly being on someone's claim

and being nice if someone wanders onto your claim by accident is well taken

but does not in the least diminish what those two were doing.

The amount of mistrust and paranoia an episode like this produces

does incalculable damage to everyone involved in this hobby, everywhere.

I am sure you will agree.

All the best,

Flak

[nuggethunting]

Hey Flak,

I agree with you 100% about these guys being straight out Highgraders.

On another note, I probably get 25 calls & emails per week about where to go. Many upcoming electronic prospectors are very Green and don't have really a clue where they should hunt or where to stay off of. They never seen claim markers, don't know how to research, don't understand how claims are laid out ... ect. These guys are the ones I'm talking about ... we all started there at one time and really was clueless.

I'm trying to protect the newbies and the ones that really don't know any better and aren't out to ripe someone off. The repeat offenders are a different story!

Hope you understand,

Rob Allison

[FlakMagnet]

Rob,

That was as clear as a bell.

I agree on all points.

All the best,

Flak

[sawmill]

Rob

I can't agree with any part of your theory.

If I was selling equipment and detectors ,then I might see it that way.

Green horn prospectors are not any different than any other hobby

types or sportsmen. If you can spend the money and time for equipment

then you can learn the rules too.

To a person every known high grader I have caught has pleaded ignorance

and tried to ride the newbie thing.

I think people that sell equipment and promote prospecting to newbies

should provide a class on land use and how to spot a claim,instead of

showing them how to run a machine and just turning them loose.

The Fish and Game doesn't look the other way when a newbie hunter doesn't

bother to learn the rules ,or are hunting in a closed area.

The highway patrol doesn't care if you didn't take the time to learn the rules,

and won't listen to your sob story. They will just keep writing the ticket.

Not bothering to learn or research before breaking the law is just a cheap cop out,

and a piss poor excuse.

I am not a rocket scientist but I was locating mining claims long before

Geo communicator and LR2000. All it takes is a little common sense and be

willing to do a little work. If a person is too lazy or stupid to learn the ropes

then he should find another hobby.

The same people you are defending will spend hundreds of hours researching

detectors or coils,or what atv to buy. But they won't waste time learning the

basic prospecting regulations or how to know where they are? That stuff just

doesn't fly.

There is a reason lots of claim owners don't have much sympathy anymore.

After hearing all the lame excuses time after time,and cleaning up the mess

it gets real old. When some dumb ass drives a 4 wheeler over several protected

plants in a area closed to 4 wheelers ,digs up the place like a herd of wild pigs

and drives off it gets a little hard to listen to lame excuses.

If some guy drives up to my claims and has kids with him ,or seems like a

decent type I will go out of my way to help them find a spot. But if I catch a

grown man that can read and write, detecting or digging then he can tell his

sad story to the law.

My advice to newbies is if you are not qualified or know how to tell where

you are. Join a club or find someone that you can trust to show you the

ropes,before just running off half cocked and dangerous. Actually the time

spent learning the rules,how to locate open land,and avoid active claims ,

researching the area,and geology will help put nuggets in your poke,and make

that new detector pay off quicker. For a fact it will get you a lot more respect,

and your detector won't wind up in the evidence locker.

Right now with the bad economy,newbies will be out in record numbers. So it

is in everyone's best interest to insist that they know how to behave on public

land and not make excuses for them. When the complaints start piling up,it will

just add more reasons for the new administration to start shutting all of us out.

[Denny]

Rob are you planning on leasing any of those claims to the WSPA?

[FlakMagnet]

Sawmill,

That post should be required reading.

While I still accept and agree with Rob's last clarification,

I follow your point of view as my personal preference.

If you're going to be an adult

then learn the grown-up rules and do the right thing.

There's really no other way -

unless of course, like so many,

one is the kind of person that enjoys deluding themselves.

Then there is really nothing that can be done.

Those folks always have a justification for landing in the sh*t.

Thanks.

Flak

[nuggethunting]

Hey Sawmill,

It don't have anything to do with selling equipment. I don't have to sell equipment for a living, one reason I'm a threat to others. I have a great job, wife has a great job and we both run the business cause we love it. If I didn't sell another piece of equipment it wouldn't effect us one bit. The "you sell equipment" deal has gotten real old.

I do agree with some of your statement. However, most people don't have their claims properly staked, or even staked at all.

If you're a claims owner and have all the signs, location monument, corner markers all properly marked, then you shouldn't have people wondering on your claims unless they are trying to highgrade. However, here in Arizona, (guessing) about 75% of the active claims are not marked at all. Tons of paper stakers in the West!

Take care,

Rob Allison

[sawmill]

Rob

I must have you confused with another Rob.

You know the one that owns Robs Detector Sales and much more.

Detectors are prospecting equipment,so is picks.

My claims are in Arizona and clearly staked with signs and flagging.

You would be surprised how many guys walk right past a sign and swear

they didn't know they was on someones claim. With just a little effort and

a GPS you can even find the corners or real close on a paper staked claim.

I used to chase claim corners for a living,before there was even computers.

Also spent a lot of time finding old section corners for a Government survey

crew. Claim plats are available at the county recorders office. All claims have

to have a map with the bearing points for at least one corner,and the width

and length.

A good compass and a range finder,or if you have a GPS unit will locate the

other corners ,or close enough that you can keep your distance if in doubt.

Old lode claims can be a little difficult ,but placer claims are easy. You don't

have to be exactly dead on with the corners ,just close enough to be aware

that you may be on a claim. Or you could get the name ,address,and phone

number from the claim papers at the county and contact the owners for their

corner locations,before going into a claimed up area. There really is no excuse

to be caught on a valid claim.

I am not picking on you ,or even mean you alone when I mentioned detector

and prospecting equipment. I mean all detector and prospecting equipment

dealers.

[AZNuggetBob]

Hi Wes, This is just my opinion on this subject and obviously I cant speak for all claim owners but Ive had many so called hygraders on my claims in the past but with me its sort of a case by case thing. its not hard to tell a newbie from someone thats just yanking your chain about being lost. in most cases with a newbie off course only requires a point in the right direction to send them on their way, but the ones that really annoy me are the ones that come back at night. AzNuggetBob

[Dakota Slim]

Sawmill is right. If somebody buys a metal detector or other prospecting equipment they KNOW about mining claims but like AZNuggetBob says, pointing a hygrader in the right direction usually sets them straight. It's also easier than calling the sheriff.

[Tony Teixeira]

I JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!!!!!

Here are two guys that can go high grading at night with flashlights for a few hours and find more gold than me on my best day...... well I may be exaggerating a bit..... but not much.

Tony Teixeira