GPX series confusion on timings/settings

[nuggethunting]

Hello All,

A forum member on antoher thread asked me about this:

Can you use Deep with other settings?

For starters, I think Minelab detectors can be confusing when it comes to their labeling. The whole "Deep, General and Custom" is more confusing than anything.

These three settings are just factory pre-set settings for guys that know nothing about the unit. You can flip the switch into one of these three settings and take off and hunt. That being said, you can also customize these three settings to what you like and then save them. This is done by flipping the switch into one of the modes, let’s say "Deep" for starters."

Now let’s back up here for a second, when you're in the "Deep" mode and looking at your LCD screen, you will see there are settings already set up, but when you switch that toggle switch to "General" or "Custom" the settings will change. Like I said, these are three factory presets you have to work with.

How you can save your own 3 settings: When you're in "Deep," you can customize your own settings, volume, gain, audio, ground balance, iron reject and such .... to however you like it. Once you shut the GPX5000 off, those settings you just customized will now save over the factory Minelab presets in that "Deep" mode. You might label in your own mind that setting now as "Patch 1" or Shallow Ground" ect .... If you do this same thing with the "General" and "Custom" modes, you will have three of your own, completely customized settings you like. You can label them whatever you want in your mind, so the "Deep, General and Custom" don't mean anything anymore besides still being labeled on that toggle.

If you ever decide to change the unit back to stock or factory presets, you can do this by holding down the ON/OFF toggle switch until you get the screen that shows "Change all settings back to default." At this point you can either reset one of the modes you are currently in, reset all three of them back or exit the screen and leave them the way they are.

You mentioned running settings together. You can run any combo of settings together, but keep in mind the only thing you have to understand is timings. With the GPX5000 you get a total of 8 timings on this unit. Two of the timings, Normal and Enhance are their own timings and don't combine with the Special timings on the LCD that you can change.

Normal is its own timing, Enhance is its own timing and if you have Normal with Sensitive/Extra or Fine Gold for example, you really only have "Normal" timing. (Please reply to this post if you don't understand this)

If you want to use the other 6 timings, you must be in "Special timing" on the front control panel and then choose what timing you want from the LCD screen, which would be like "Salt Coarse, Fine Gold, Sensitive/Extra, Coil/Relic" and such.

There still seems to be a bunch of confusion on this, so lets just start here for beginners. If you have questions, comments or concerns about this, please post them here.

Talk with you soon,

Rob Allison

[montana]

Rob, Good thing you brought that up about the timing settings.Some people don't understand that you have to have the switch set on special to use the fine gold timing . Even though the screen may read "Fine Gold", if the switch is in the normal or enhanced position you are NOT in fine gold timing. It would have been better if the 6 special timings didn't appear on the screen while the switch is on enhanced or normal position. On the other switch, it would have been better to just label it 1,2,3, than deep,general, custom. As you stated, those two things cause the most confusion.----Bob

[actionjackson]

Thanks for the post on settings.

I recently upgraded from a gpx-4500 to a gpx-5000 and also purchased a Coiltek 14"x24" coil.

I just got back last night from a 2-day trip to Gold Basin and found my first find EVER - a 140 gram meteor which was around 4-6 inches deep. To say I was excited is an understatement.

I bought my first detector about 10-years ago which was a Minelab sd2200 and I have only been out maybe once or twice a year.

I was using the default settings which worked great on the gpx-5000. The coil was out of this world. I was digging targets 18-24" deep. Most were small (very small) pieces of tin but I was amazed at the depth of this coil combined with the default settings of the gpx-5000. I was concerned about sensitivity with using such a large coil but it was fantastic. The only obvious problem was pinpointing with such a large coil.

I was recording most of my digs but forgot to turn on my gopro cam when I was digging the meteorite. I do however have some pics which I will be posting later today at my blog; http://jrjackson.com

J.R.

[notoriouskelly]

Congratulations on your meteorite, AJ!

Gold is nice but pretty exciting to find something from out of this world.

[FlakMagnet]

Rob,

Bravo for taking up a subject that should be simple, but is easily misunderstood.

I applaud anyone in the detecting community who tries to help clarify how to use

these detectors.

Also, once you master the Settings and the Timings

you still have to learn how to set the detector up

for the conditions you are hunting in.

I would love to see a short article on the correct order for setting up a 4500 or a 5000.

For instance:

What is the reason that ML recommends turning the Gain to it's maximum and the Motion setting to Fast

before you Autotune? Does everyone even know that is the recommendation?

Or, why should you return the Stabilizer to its factory preset before you change your Gain setting?

Or why do you need to set the Gain before the Stabilizer?

Or, is there a drawback to using too a high a Volume Limit? (yes)

Stuff like that.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time.

New dad's don't have much of that commodity.

All the best,

Flak

[AZ4AU]

Hello Flak,

That is how I have always tuned the 4000 (auto ground balance, fast motion and gain at max) as that will give the machine the most amount of interference while it is tuning and then it will pick the clearest channel to work with . Another trick when you have a screamer target and can't tell if it's in the side of the hole or bottom just flip to cancel and kill the gain , you will have to be right on the target to get a signal , play with it on a surface target to find out how much to kill the gain . (Don't forget to switch back to mono or DD)

[nvdirtdigger]

Hey Flac, I'm with ya, I'm just getting into it and the suggestions you spoke about for the 4500 I haven't heard of, where did you find those recomendations? Thanks

[El Dorado]

Rob,

Bravo for taking up a subject that should be simple, but is easily misunderstood.

I applaud anyone in the detecting community who tries to help clarify how to use

these detectors.

Also, once you master the Settings and the Timings

you still have to learn how to set the detector up

for the conditions you are hunting in.

I would love to see a short article on the correct order for setting up a 4500 or a 5000.

For instance:

What is the reason that ML recommends turning the Gain to it's maximum and the Motion setting to Fast

before you Autotune? This is so the detector is in a very sensitive setting and will pick up the most interference that you want to tune out. Does everyone even know that is the recommendation?

Or, why should you return the Stabilizer to its factory preset before you change your Gain setting? This allows a higher gain setting prior to setting the stabilizer as the stabilizer sort of dumbs down the machine just a little

Or why do you need to set the Gain before the Stabilizer? same as above

Or, is there a drawback to using too a high a Volume Limit? (yes)Not completely sure but it may keep you from blowing out your ears, plus at higher settings it also increases the threshold, only wag's here

Stuff like that.

Anyway, thank you for taking the time.

New dad's don't have much of that commodity.

All the best,

Flak

[FlakMagnet]

Hi you guys,

I was trying to give suggestions for what some topics in a thread

might contain.

For instance the reason for the Stabilizer question

was because it is a little unclear that the Stabilizer is basically an audio filter which

moves the noise floor up or down. If you use it before setting the Gain

you may be effecting the amount of GaIn you can apply.

(that is why the manual says to set the Stabilizer to the Factory Presets

before you change your Gain settings).

Also although it is an overall filter, it has a slightly more important use (and impact)

when looking for small gold and a relatively

smaller effect when looking for larger gold.

There has been very little discussion about it in detail.

The reason for bringing up use of the Volume Limit

is that the manual touts it as a plus when working in windy conditions.

But when you raise the Volume Limit you also raising the Threshold

and that may or may not be what you are intending.

Here's another one that took me awhile:

What is the relationship between the Signal setting and the Volume Tone setting.

Anyway, those were a few of the things that do not exactly

jump out of the manual when you read it.

And although I understand these things quite well now, it can take awhile.

I am probably not the best qualified to discuss these topics in detail

as what I understand for myself I may not be able to communicate very well,

hence my hope that someone would jump in with deep answers.

You guys are great with the willingness to provide answers.

It's what makes this forum such a cool place for all of us.

all the best,

Flak

[montana]

I'll add another tip here. Once you get used to the GPX5000, forget the autotuner altogether! Use the manual tuner! It is way faster and much more effective than autotuning and I have yet to find a place where I can't get the threshold dead smooth. Once you get used to using the manual tuner it only takes seconds to find the best setting and it will be far better setting than the autotuner picks. I suspect that the 4500 and the 4000 would be better manual tuned also, I just never messed with it much, and trusted that the autotuner was doing what it was supposed to do. I think the problem with the auto tuner is that it scans way too fast as it zips through the entire range of frequencies. This would work on a steady EMI source , but it's those random spikes and wobbles that are the real annoying and distracting disturbances and the autotuner could not possibly pick up on those at the speed which it scans.I have found that you don't have to check all the frequencies, but just a few. I start at around 125 and usually within ten clicks up or down I find a real quiet spot. I then leave my screen set to manual tune as I detect and if I hear any EMI creeping in a click or two of the right knob fixes it and I do this without even looking at the controls. One or two seconds and I'm re-tuned with a smooth threshold. This has made detecting much more enjoyable for me and i think it would be well worth anybodies time to learn to do this quickly and efficiently. I'm not saying that the autotuner is bad , but it is just looking for something that it can't possibly find at the speed which it is scanning. A slower manual scan through a few frequencies seems to be far more effective and quicker than a fast scan through hundreds of frequencies. The autotuner works well with a constant EMI source like a nearby powerline or another nearby PI detector, but those intermittant, random spikes are best tuned out by the operator.----Bob

[El Dorado]

Bob,

short question, when you retune during the day, what position do you keep the coil?

[nvdirtdigger]

I read a similar article that also said use manual tune, but the 4500 should always be somewhere between 90 and 110?

[notoriouskelly]

Bob,

Thanks for the manual tune tip - I've been using autotune yet still get the warbling. Makes sense that a slow, manual tune would be more accurate.

[montana]

NVdirtdigger. The numbers depend on the type of interference and the proximity to the source. I really don't think there is any set of numbers which would apply to all locations. If you were to always hunt the same area there may very well be a certain range that would work the best. If you are trying to tune out another detector , the numbers would be far different than trying to tune out a power line or radar. I pay no attention really to what the number is that is working at the moment because sometime during the day it often changes. This would apply to all the GPXs . If you had it in your mind that you needed to keep the numbers between 90 and 110 there would surely come a time where numbers in that range wouldn't give you good results. With the GPxs the incredible amount of adjustability is what sets them apart from the older models. Along with that comes an increased need to know the detector well enough to recognize when something just isn't quite right and to know what to do to get it right . They are great detectors using just the factory presets and beginners or casual hobbyists can do fine with those settings but as time goes by and the detector is better understood , there can be many ways to maximize the potential of the machine.

I lift the coil a few feet off the ground and point it toward the horizon since that is the position where the most EMI is picked up while tuning. You could , as some suggest, increase the gain and raise the stabilizer numbers to make the detector hypersensitive or switch to patch mode which does the same thing before tuning. I haven't found that neccesary so far but it would make the threshold even smoother if you could tune out all the EMI with it hypered up.----Bob

[chperdue]

Hi All

While we talking about tuning, I have observed on my GPX 4000 that tuning can, and does affect target response. When I tune (manually) while hunting, to get rid of EMI I have lost little targets. I was in an area where there was a few little dinks. I found a few and got what I thought was another but got some EMI creeping in, so I tuned a little to quiet down the detector, and could not find the signal again. So I reset the tune to the previous number and could here it again. So I dug it and found a little .4 gm dink about 3" down on some bedrock. Can you guys tell me why that is? Perhaps I need to send it to ML for a tune up? I checked this out twice and both times I lost the signal and could not find it with the detector tuned to it quietest setting for that target.

Keeper swinging.

CH

[nvdirtdigger]

I have so much to learn Thanks for the input!One question, "well one for now" would it be a good suggestion to auto tune then fine tune from that point?

[FlakMagnet]

Rob or Bob can probably answer this one better,

but it's like there are two (related), schools of thought;

one; you Auto-Tune and either leave it, or work the numbers one way or the other off the number the Auto-Tune comes up with.

two; instead of Auto-Tuning, you go through the numbers manually and find the number that you find suits the conditions.

I have tried both ways and find that each way can be made to work very well.

I think when you get a deeper working knowledge of the detector and the way you like to use it,

you may opt for the Manual tuning method. It forces you to pay more attention to the tuning routine

and it takes a little bit more time, but you are taking total responsibility for tuning the detector

and some people like that.

fwiw,

Flak

[montana]

You certainly could auto tune first and manual tune from there . Like I said , I prefer to start at some point in the low 100s and tweek it up or down from there . I don't manually work through all the settings. Usually within a few clicks I find a suitable setting. I have found that almost without exception the best setting will be between 100 and 150. Sometimes I hit on a number that is extremely noisey but one more click away and it goes dead quiet. As I got used to manually tuning I found that it is much faster than auto tuning.

Colorado gold man. It is possible that there could be a slight loss or gain of sensitivity depending on the number selected. Others have suggested this and there was a long thread on one of the Aussie forums about this. I spent hours checking it out by checking a target on each number . My results were inconclusive at best, but there were a few spots where I thought I could hear the target a tiny bit better, but at the same time the EMI increased to unacceptable levels. Even if there actually was something to this, I would rather run on the quietest setting I could find rather than stopping all the time to recheck random blips . I don't think sending your detector in at this point would be wise as I doubt that there is a problem with it if this was the only quirk you have noticed with it. You could run it warbling like crazy and find gold no problem if you don't go batty first. The dead smooth threshold that can be achieved with the GPXs and especially the GPX5000 has left me with no regrets about making the expensive upgrades. I want detecting to be a pleasant experience since I spend so much time doing it. The ratty threshold on the older machines just made me give up at times in frustration.----bob

[chperdue]

Hi Bob

Hey thanks for the info. I usually only have to retune a little around noon or so. It seems that midday is the worst most of the time around here. I just kind of stumbled on this. I didn't get real concerded about it. I dont have a high degree of tolerance for noisy detectors, unless I'm finding the yellow stuff then I put up with quiet a bit. I started with a 4000 because it is simpler to learn for now. Some day I would like to up grade to a new first line detector as get better with it. Maybe a GPX 8000

Thanks

CH

[montana]

CH. The 4000 is a fantastic starter for sure and will continue to be an excellant detector for years to come. No need to feel that you need to upgrade that's for sure.----Bob

[LuckyLundy]

CH,

Montana is correct. I detect with a GPX 4000, and have yet to feel I need to upgrade. With the GPX machines, how smooth is smooth when they run deadly quiet. Sure the newer models pickup a few smaller nuggets missed by the older Minelabs and my 4000 has done the same with ground detected with newer models. My next Minelab model upgrade will have to detect deeper say 10-20% and I'm looking forward to that day! Until our next hunt.

LuckyLundy

[FlakMagnet]

Hi Lucky,

I agree with your comments about the 4000 and not feeling the need to upgrade.

I would like to add however, it is not necessarily getting more depth that makes the newer machines worthy

it's that they read the ground better at all the old depths.

From what I have seen that's where the majority of the newer finds are being made,

and not necessarily that they're being detected all that much deeper.

As Montana and others have commented,

being able to use the controls to overcome the conditions in a particular area

and arrive at a steady, unruffled threshold in difficult mineralized ground

makes all the difference.

If the ground is benign then having lots of possibilities to change how the detector works

doesn't matter as much,

but where you hunt - where most of us hunt - the mineralization, the hot-rocks and the emi

all conspire to screw up what the detector tells us

and that's where I feel the 5000 really shines, it's a progressive step better at giving us

more refined ways to control the conditions we hunt in.

I know this is all stuff you understand very well, you prove that in every post.

but thought it might be good to chat about for the other people who follow these threads.

fwiw

All the best and continued good hunting.

Flak

[LuckyLundy]

Flak,

Your more than correct, yet the GPX 5000 has limit's on EMI and hot rocks as you know...as any machine will. Don't get me wrong, I've seen Montana pull nuggets from my old patches with his new GPX 5000 with a fantastic signal. That alone is a great step in detecting with the new GPX 5000 vs older Minelab models. I'm a Minelab fan and like any fan, I continue to want the best from my Minelab team!

Rick

[chperdue]

Hi Rick, Bob, and Guys

I love my 4000 it is very good detector, with the Nugget Finder 14 Elip it run very quit and it will find sub gram gold. With the big 15x12 comander which is a great coil on the 4000 I can cover a lot of ground and find realy small gold from depths that my other detectors only dream about. I don't think I will upgrade until my skills surpass the detector's capability, and by then they'll have an 8000 or 10k out. I'm still just learning the 4000 so I have a ways to go. Rick I'm still looking for a 8" mono or a commander so I can get those little dinks no pun intended. Robin seem to have your number lately Thanks guys for your input.

CH

[LuckyLundy]

CH,

That 8" Commander Mono, is a must for all Minelab gold detectorist! Keep searching the forums and other web-site's, one will show up. But, don't wait to long, call Rob for a new one. It gets them big, small, deep & shallow...you'll love it, but it seems like a toy compaired to the larger 12x15. So stick to the patch or shallow bedrock. Your GPX 4000 will fill your poke for that next upgrade when the time comes. Good luck!

Rick