Cave treasure?

[eshawnjohnson2000]

Hello all, its me from Kentucky again.

Any thoughts on what to look for in a cave on the first entry? A friend of mine and I discovered an entrance to what looks to be a fairly good sized cave the other day while looking at his new land. Since we didn't have equipment, we decided to come back better prepared. Is there gold in caves? Or gems? What should I be looking for?

[grubstake]

I would say lok for bad air, it will kill you before you have a chance to get out, then look for bear, snakes, mountain lions, bob cats or lots of other critters, Once you find out if the air is good or bad, then look for crystal formations. I don't think in Kentucky your going to find gold, maybe lead, silver or lots of different crystals. But then you just never know. Kentucky is coal country, lots of caves with methane pockets. Be safe not sorry. Grubstake

[FrogMick]

Grubstake is right about bad air so here's what you do.

Go to your nearest pet shop, buy the cheapest little bird and cage they have. Take the little bird in his cage with you to explore the cave. If the little bird starts huffing and puffing turn around and walk back the way you came and out of the cave. If the little bird falls off it's perch and lays motionless on the bottom of the cage follow the previous steps except drop the cage and don't walk, run like hell! That's what the old timers use to do.

Seriously they use to do it this way years ago. Now with modern safety equipment including emergency oxygen it would be best to stay out of caves and mines unless you have have up to date equipment and really know what you are doing underground. Maybe someone in the area can give you some info on this particular cave. The land and the cave have been there along time with probably many previous owners so I imagine it is well know to locals who can tell you and your friend about it. Good luck be safe.

[adam]

Im sure there is burried treasure in a cave somewhere in the world, but the odds that you found a cave that has treasure is slim to none. Very few caves if any have natural gold or gemstones so I wouldnt even bother. Cave discoveries have been made in Naica,MX in some of the silver mines that contained wonderful rediculously huge Selenite formations or other minerals. Miners often hit large rooms or pockets of minerals all over the world, however those are not considered caves.

Serious cavers are a secretive bunch, so if you are into caving for the sport of it then you really should join a local Grotto Chapter. Im sure there are a few in your area.

Personally I would feel much safer entering a cave than an abandoned mine, as abandoned mines are filled with serious hazzards.

Maybe "Lotsa Luck" will chime in on tis and steer you in another direction. He knows his stuff in regards to the underground world.

[Ridge Runner]

Eshawnjohnson 200...

I have a nephew that goes into caves to bring out people that didn't know what they were getting into and when he did came out with them they were dead.

The first thing they didn't have somebody outside if they didn't come out to go get help and it was days before they found what cave they went into.When you don't know what your doing it's going to be all bad for you.

Chuck Anders

[eshawnjohnson2000]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Fortunately, or unfortunately(depending on your point of view) I worked the deep mines of eastern Ky. for a while, so the dangers and the precautions are well known to me. Had to take extensive training for the job.

I guess I am doomed to dream from afar. Just means i"ll have to travel a little.

[eshawnjohnson2000]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Fortunately, or unfortunately(depending on your point of view) I worked the deep mines of eastern Ky. for a while, so the dangers and the precautions are well known to me. Had to take extensive training for the job.

I guess I am doomed to dream from afar. Just means i"ll have to travel a little.

[NDN_Gold_lover]

Thanks for the words of wisdom. Fortunately, or unfortunately(depending on your point of view) I worked the deep mines of eastern Ky. for a while, so the dangers and the precautions are well known to me. Had to take extensive training for the job.

I guess I am doomed to dream from afar. Just means i"ll have to travel a little.

Depending on a number of factors there may be, "archealogical treasures," beads, flint blades, arrow heads, pestels...etc located in many caves in Kentucky (some of my Ancestors came from that area (southern Ohio/northern) until they moved out to Kansas, and Oklahoma. if you find early copper jewlery or vessels they have great value, but there may be legal and ethical items to consider in your state if you uncover and then remove such things, especially if they come from public, or noted historical lands...good luck

[Bandana Don]

eshawnjohnson2000: I'd suggest you check with Kentucky an see if they have an Antiquity Law and what is or isn't covered by the law. Many states have such laws on their books which cover Native American items.

Don

[Iron Horse]

Does anyone know if there is a antiquity law in Arizona? And if so, does it apply to indian artifacts?

Thanks Iron Horse

[FrogMick]

Does anyone know if there is a antiquity law in Arizona? And if so, does it apply to indian artifacts?

Thanks Iron Horse

Iron Horse, the Federal Antiquities Laws especially apply to indian arifacts. Some of the big busts that have been made were for digging and dealing in them.

There is a federal law: American Antiquities Act of 1906. There also is the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979. These both cover all federal controlled public land. Yes, they are old and have only been used a few times to prosecute gross violations. They carry some stiff penalties of fines and prison time depending on how they want to prosecute you. The Feds interpret these to basically cover any man made object of any archaeological or historical value including treasure of any kind that was lost or hidden by man. That includes coins over 50 years old. Also Paleontology and Fossil Laws and Paleontology Permits. The BLM Artifacts & Fossil Warning. Check out Collecting Minerals and Collection limits to the right in the little green box. The Prescott N.F Warning. I know it says there is a Treasure Hunting Permit, if anyone ever tries to get one please let me know how that works out for you, I would guess probably not well. The Feds are being pressured by greenies and archaeologists all the time to tighten up on enforcement. It's like doing 60 in a 45 zone you may get caught, but your betting you won't.

State Land in AZ, don't you need a permit to look at it from anything less than a mile away? Counties aren't into it yet, but it would to be wise to check about land they control. Land controlled by cities or towns, I would check. I live in the town of Prescott Valley, AZ and found out metal detecting on town land is against the law. That includes public places around all the town buildings, facilities and the public town parks. There is only one exception, in Fain Park on Lynx Creek you can use a metal detector to locate minerals, nugget hunt. Even there you can not use it to relic hunt or coin hunt. It is also against the law to remove dirt from Fain Park to pan out later at home or from any other town land. We have a law against discharging of weapons intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly discharging a weapon within the limits of the Town. OK fine, but look at the definition of weapons. "Weapon" for purposes of this Article means anything designed for lethal use. The term shall also include any firearm, explosive, bow and arrow, crossbow, BB gun, air gun, pellet gun, dart gun, slingshot, gas-operated gun and prohibited weapons as defined in ARS §13-3101. DAMN! Hey Prescott Valley you forgot spit wads and rubber band shooters! Wait a minute it's against the law to spit in public in Prescott Valley so they did cover that spit wad part and a rubber band shooter probably falls under slingshot. The next time the neighbor's cat is out on our deck eating our cat's food I'll just give it a very stern look.

That leaves only private land that as far as I know has no regulations about treasure or relics or coins or bones and fossils. The archaeologists, paleontologist and greenies are working on that to from what I've read. I heard talk about a Oregon State Archaeological Permit to dig and remove relics on private land even if you own it. More than talk, I just found this. Oregon Process for Applying for an Archaeological Permit on Private Lands, bottom of the page. I just checked Arizona (ARS) and found nothing so I guess here we don't have to get a permit and hire a state approved archaeologist to oversee a relic hunt on our own land, yet. All they have to do is enforce the laws on the books to stick it to us some more. When they do most guys won't even know they were breaking federal law and end up a convicted federal felon.

[Iron Horse]

Iron Horse, the Federal Antiquities Laws especially apply to indian arifacts. Some of the big busts that have been made were for digging and dealing in them.

There is a federal law: American Antiquities Act of 1906. There also is the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979. These both cover all federal controlled public land. Yes, they are old and have only been used a few times to prosecute gross violations. They carry some stiff penalties of fines and prison time depending on how they want to prosecute you. The Feds interpret these to basically cover any man made object of any archaeological or historical value including treasure of any kind that was lost or hidden by man. That includes coins over 50 years old. Also Paleontology and Fossil Laws and Paleontology Permits. The BLM Artifacts & Fossil Warning. Check out Collecting Minerals and Collection limits to the right in the little green box. The Prescott N.F Warning. I know it says there is a Treasure Hunting Permit, if anyone ever tries to get one please let me know how that works out for you, I would guess probably not well. The Feds are being pressured by greenies and archaeologists all the time to tighten up on enforcement. It's like doing 60 in a 45 zone you may get caught, but your betting you won't.

State Land in AZ, don't you need a permit to look at it from anything less than a mile away? Counties aren't into it yet, but it would to be wise to check about land they control. Land controlled by cities or towns, I would check. I live in the town of Prescott Valley, AZ and found out metal detecting on town land is against the law. That includes public places around all the town buildings, facilities and the public town parks. There is only one exception, in Fain Park on Lynx Creek you can use a metal detector to locate minerals, nugget hunt. Even there you can not use it to relic hunt or coin hunt. It is also against the law to remove dirt from Fain Park to pan out later at home or from any other town land. We have a law against discharging of weapons intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly discharging a weapon within the limits of the Town. OK fine, but look at the definition of weapons. "Weapon" for purposes of this Article means anything designed for lethal use. The term shall also include any firearm, explosive, bow and arrow, crossbow, BB gun, air gun, pellet gun, dart gun, slingshot, gas-operated gun and prohibited weapons as defined in ARS §13-3101. DAMN! Hey Prescott Valley you forgot spit wads and rubber band shooters! Wait a minute it's against the law to spit in public in Prescott Valley so they did cover that spit wad part and a rubber band shooter probably falls under slingshot. The next time the neighbor's cat is out on our deck eating our cat's food I'll just give it a very stern look.

That leaves only private land that as far as I know has no regulations about treasure or relics or coins or bones and fossils. The archaeologists, paleontologist and greenies are working on that to from what I've read. I heard talk about a Oregon State Archaeological Permit to dig and remove relics on private land even if you own it. More than talk, I just found this. Oregon Process for Applying for an Archaeological Permit on Private Lands, bottom of the page. I just checked Arizona (ARS) and found nothing so I guess here we don't have to get a permit and hire a state approved archaeologist to oversee a relic hunt on our own land, yet. All they have to do is enforce the laws on the books to stick it to us some more. When they do most guys won't even know they were breaking federal law and end up a convicted federal felon.

Wow, Thanks Mick. I'm actually moving into P.V. in the next month from Hawaii and I appreciate the heads up. Over here the big hoopla is the burial sites and not so much the artifacts (although there have been a few cases of that too). I will be happy to meet you down at the courthouse so we can have a watermelon launching contest...I just hope you can run fast.

I was kinda wondering about arrowheads, spearheads and similar stuff. I've been out walking around and found them before (they seem to be everywhere) or an occasional piece of broken pottery? I'm not a big relic hunter but in my gold travels it does seem to pop up every now and then.

Thanks Steve

[FrogMick]

Steve, I wish we could just trade places like mine in PV for yours in HI, but you wouldn't want mine and I can't afford anything in HI. Thanks for the invite, but I don't get out any more unless it is absolutely necessary because of bad health. I enjoy the heck out of reading all these folks prospecting adventures and that is as close as I get to doing it. I do have a lot of time to set here and look up stuff like what I posted in answer to your question. Like I said, "It's like doing 60 in a 45 zone you may get caught, but your betting you won't.". Hypothetically speaking, If someone did happen to find a relic of any kind by accident it would be best advised to not mention it to anyone except only those you have the very most trust in.

If you know what I mean...

Enjoy....Paul

[Iron Horse]

Steve, I wish we could just trade places like mine in PV for yours in HI, but you wouldn't want mine and I can't afford anything in HI. Thanks for the invite, but I don't get out any more unless it is absolutely necessary because of bad health. I enjoy the heck out of reading all these folks prospecting adventures and that is as close as I get to doing it. I do have a lot of time to set here and look up stuff like what I posted in answer to your question. Like I said, "It's like doing 60 in a 45 zone you may get caught, but your betting you won't.". Hypothetically speaking, If someone did happen to find a relic of any kind by accident it would be best advised to not mention it to anyone except only those you have the very most trust in.

If you know what I mean...

Enjoy....Paul

Thanks Paul, I would gladly trade you HI for AZ. You are right on target about the cost, it's way too expensive. The insurance alone in AZ is literally 10% of what I'm paying in HI. Go figure. As far as health I wish you the best and hope to meet you at the courthouse for some fun with launching fruit sometime in the near future. This is a open invitation. Thanks for the info on AZ. I will keep my eyes wide open and my pockets full and my mouth shut... maybe!