Stop this insanity Now

[DOC]

I just donated $35 to the Scott Brown senatorial race in Mass. Brown is the GOP candidate, to fill the seat left oepn by the death of Kennedy. This guy is a staunch conservative and his election to the Senate will stop the Democrats fillibuster proof 60 vote majority they currently have, and will stop this healthcare bill dead in its tracks.

This special election takes place in 9 days. If he wins, you will immediately see how things will change. These democrats will think twice about leaving our children with an enormous debt.

I know this is a gold prospecting forum, but this hits at the heart of everything we are as Americans.

This health care bill is not about health care at all, it's about collapsing the American system of Democracy and turning us into a socialist country.

NO, I am not a conspiracy nut. Do a Google search on Cloward and Piven. They are professors at Columbia University who wrote and devised a strategy to collapse the United States Government and turn it into a Socialist country. Their plan was to overwhelm the system with financial demands and flood the welfare rolls to cause total bankruptcy and crisis. This is the blueprint that Obama is following.

Oh no, that can't be, you say? Well Cloward and Piven were the ones who devcised the Motor Voter program, to be able to register anyone at the DMV to vote. They were also instrumental in organizing ACORN, perhaps you have heard of them? Widespread voter fraud, earmarks in the millions going to them from the Obama administration until their unholy infrastructure was exposed by two amatuer videographers.

You better start connecting the dots.

A year ago, the Aussie Dollar was worth 56 cents of one of our dollars. Today the Aussie dollar is worth 91 cents of one of our dollars because the American dollar is becoming worthless as Obama pumps more play money into the economy via stimulus plans, and increase the debt by trillions that is impossible to pay off.

So, a coil that cost you $224, at .56 cents will soon cost you, $364 at .91 cents. But how will you afford it with the economy in as bad a shape as it is? YOU won't. Soon you will not be able to afford anything, and the economy will collapse.

Remember what Rahm Emanuelle, Obama's Chicago thug said, "Never let a good crisis go to waste." Well that's what they are working towards, they want a big crisis, they are already trying to seize control of everything.

Government jobs have already grown and exceeded manufacturing jobs. And who pays for the government employees? We do through our taxes. But if the working class keeps losing manufacturing jobs, how will will we pay for all of this government bureauacracy? They will keep increasing our taxes until we can't live, and the collapse of the economy will start and the dominos will start to fall.

I just made a contribution to Scott Brown for U.S. Senate and I'm hoping you will do the same. You can donate by going to https://www.icontribute.us/scottbrown. Thank you for your support!

[grubstake]

Yeh DOC, too bad we didn't know soon enough, we could have sent all the DEMS. to Haiti for a weeks vacation. Grubstake

[LuckyLundy]

I invested over 20 years of my life for Govt Health Care...it works for me and untold numbers of other Active/Retired/Reserve and Disabled Veteran of the United States Military. I have no problem with Govt Health Care!

LuckyLundy

[DOC]

I invested over 20 years of my life for Govt Health Care...it works for me and untold numbers of other Active/Retired/Reserve and Disabled Veteran of the United States Military. I have no problem with Govt Health Care!

LuckyLundy

Lucky, the benefits you enjoy and so richly deserve from being a Veteran bears absolutely no resemblance to this piece of garbage legislation that includes every bit of pork and crap they could include. Taking care of our veterans is much different than the government seizing control of 17% of the nation's economy. And in order to do this they are willing to steal from the senior's medicaid to finance this. If you think this pending legislation is a good idea, then you haven't read one page of it. (Except for the part that says, The national health reform bill passed by the House last month and the Senate version to be debated in early December pose no threat to health care benefits provided to military families, retirees or veterans, advocates say."

If it is such a positive thing, then why are all the key provisions being hammered out behind close doors, without being broadcast to the public, we were promised no less than 8 times by Obama, "complete and total transparency the debate will be broadcast on C-Span." If it was such a positive thing why did we have to buy off Louisiana's vote with $300 million dollars? Not to mention other millions to other states to buy off their democratic senators votes. If it can't stand on it's own merit, something is wrong.

Healthcare legislation working its way through Congress is pork-heavy. Tucked within is a provision that could provide billions of dollars for walking paths, streetlights, jungle gyms, and even farmers’ markets. The bill has been widely portrayed to the public as dealing with expanding health coverage and cutting medical costs.

The Veteran's Administration is probably the one and only thing we can point to that the government runs half way decently. In every other area, like Social Security, they have failed miserably and stolen the money put away for years and years by hard working Americans and spent it on idiotic special interest projects.

Doc

[grubstake]

Amen DOC, I'm a VET, can go to the vetrans hospital, but the last time I went, back in the 70's the care was so crappy, I would not go back, and I'm on there Agent Orange registry, and Had and still have bad foot and skin problems, from being in Nam for two years. They just didn't treat you right then, I don't know how it is now. Why are they Having the Corn Gate, and Louiseana perchase? What happened to all the promise's that Obama made?

Here's a story for you, this factory was going to have to lay off 66 works, because of the bad economy, and the owner couldn't figure out how to decide who to lay off, so he though about it over night, and the next morning went out into the parking lot, he found the first of the cars, with VOTE FOR OBAMA stickers on them, and kept it up until he counted 66, the next morning he layed off every one with VOTE for OBAMA stickers. He said you get what you vote for. Grubstake

[1Boeing737]

Well said Doc,

I believe this train wreck is far from over though. The snowball is just beginning to roll in my opinion. I watch C Span also, you should have heard the conversation between McCain and Greenspan two weeks ago when McCain asked him how far our country is from going over the cliff financially, and where are we now in relation to this cliff? Greenspan used the miners warning approach instead, with the canary's head bobbing in a mine. He basically said when the interest rates start to climb again, they can't be stopped at all with the type of inflation and debt in hand combined. That would be the Canary's head bobbing, and warning to get out of the mine now. That conversation scared the crap out me.

[montana]

I agree with lucky Lundy. As a retiree there is no way I can afford $800.00 a month for insurance and there are millions in the same boat. Our country needs health care reform. I don't pretend that I know what is included in the current plan , but something needs to be done fast. We are all confused about the best way to do this because of all the political BS. Our country is split right down the middle so absolutely nothing is getting done without throwing in a bunch of pork to sway lawmakers. I've been without insurance for almost 3 years and it's scary at 64 years old. I just hope my luck holds until I can get on medicare (which is government healthcare) and has worked well for millions for many years. No other developed country has a system where so many people are left without any kind of health care. We need politicians who will sit down and find a workable solution , not a bunch who just vote no to screw up the other party or to satisfy the the interests that have bought and payed for their vote. It's the big money lobbyists who are undermining our constitution , not one party or the other.----Bob

[fredm]

Well, it is the Lobbyists that buy the vote...but it is the politicians that do the voting! Votes for their own selves and votes for the Fat Cats...it is a system that rots from within. All have stained hands, none are clean.

WHen a politician says he is going to help...grab your wallet!

fred

[FlakMagnet]

I am apolitical so this is no defense of Obama or the Democrats.

But to say it is the Democrats alone acting to collapse our financial system is hogwash.

Not to acknowledge that this has been a huge agenda on the other side of the aisle for decades,

combined with the moral illness of our times, an out-of-control sense of entitlement

by the wealthy "elite" of all parties at the expense of everyone else,

you lose any credibility you may have for the rest of your argument.

We desperately need some kind of reform in healthcare, we are being blatantly raped by insurance companies

who do not even bother to hide their agenda.

And beyond all that, what we really need are people with enough moral strength, intelligence and integrity to govern the country.

Unfortunately the system is gamed to produce exactly the opposite kind of person.

Right now we are being run into the ground by a government populated with politicians on both sides of the aisle

whose aims are no different than the special interests (and their lobbies) that they were elected to regulate and protect us against.

All this fingerpointing blame-game stuff is a distraction that is completely beside the point

and allows the sham to continue unabated.

Flak

[El Dorado]

I gave up part of myself in Nam. In trade for that the government takes care of my health. 30-40 years ago the system was very bad. Now, I think it is the best health care system in the country and I am lucky to have it. IF this system were used throughout the country it would be good. However, I think if the government controls health care for the whole country, it would be far far worse than the VA system of 40 years ago. I fear that I will lose this care just like the Vets in England did. The current administration's agenda is to put this country in ruins and make it like a 3rd world country with an aristocarat leadership. This is not about health, it is about control and politicians getting and keeping power.

Doc, thanks for your active support in MA!

Yup.... Socialism sucks

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi All,

I usually avoid political debates but thought I might offer a perspective. I've owned a small business now for 34 years and currently employ about 40 people. We have a health care plan.

For many years there has been only one trend. The premiums keep going up, and what you get keeps going down. I have to pay more, and finally had to ask my employees to cover part, then more, then more. And get less, and less. It is obvious if nothing is done it will soon be to the point where normal working people will not be able to afford insurance. The burden falls most on small businesses, which drive employment in this country. I have people who have left for government jobs just to get the insurance. At the rate we are going our health plan will be the medicine cabinet out back.

I'm not saying what is being proposed is the answer. But I can assure you doing nothing is not going to work either, unless you are moderately wealthy or just plain rich. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place with a Congress more concerned with scoring political points than trying to solve problems.

I don't see much difference between the parties these days. I vote we just throw out every incumbent in office. As a whole they are failing us and should all be voted out. Sad thing is that it will never happen because despite what most people say at the end of the day they like their representatives to bring home the pork. Senority counts. So if I vote out my senior representative and you keep yours I lose. So we both keep them and we both lose.

I wish we could have a national referendum on each house as a whole. If we get a national 3/4 vote that the Senate is doing a poor job, every one of them is out on their ear and new people voted in. Same with the House.

Steve Herschbach

[DOC]

I absolutely agree we need healthcare reform and we need affordable healthcare for everyone. That is a far cry from what the Democrats are proposing. And yes it is JUST THE DEMOCRATS, thy are actually locking the Republicans out of these meetings! Not that the Republicans wouldn't pork it up too. However, what you are going to get is taxed to death under this new plan, and you will still not have quality healthcare, because that is not what this bill is really about.

This isn't rocket science. ome of you are saying that you are not quite sure exactly what is in the bill, but hey, you are willing to give it a go. Well let me tell you who does know the bill intimately, inside and out, that is your senators and congressmen and women. And do you know how great they think this health care bill is? So great that they have exempted themselves from being covered under it! That's right, they can't stand to be governed by the same law they are trying to foist upon us. If it's not good enough for them, it sure as hell isn't good enough for me. Like I said, it isn't rocket science, it's just common sense.

"NO, honest Mr. Customer this Zenith 6000 metal detector is the best detector in the world there is no better detector made than this one! What, what kind of detector do I use, ah, er, well I, ah, I use a Minelab GPX4500. But you should buy this Zenith 6000 metal detector." How many of you would fall for that one?

Doc

[rexb]

I absolutely agree we need healthcare reform and we need affordable healthcare for everyone. That is a far cry from what the Democrats are proposing. And yes it is JUST THE DEMOCRATS, thy are actually locking the Republicans out of these meetings! Not that the Republicans wouldn't pork it up too. However, what you are going to get is taxed to death under this new plan, and you will still not have quality healthcare, because that is not what this bill is really about.

Doc

Yep, healthcare as handled by the Congress and Senate can be considered to be unconstitutional. The constitution hangs by a thread once again.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703278604574624021919432770.html

Here's what I found to be a very good non-political article about the problems inherent with our current system. We definitely need some changes, but I fear what is being proposed is more bandages on a system that needs to be wiped away but not replaced by a heavily government regulated system.

How American Healthcare Killed My Father:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

If it is such a positive thing, then why are all the key provisions being hammered out behind close doors, without being broadcast to the public, we were promised no less than 8 times by Obama, "complete and total transparency the debate will be broadcast on C-Span." If it was such a positive thing why did we have to buy off Louisiana's vote with $300 million dollars? Not to mention other millions to other states to buy off their democratic senators votes. If it can't stand on it's own merit, something is wrong.

Doc

Yes, and in the same vein, why did they try to ram it through at midnight on Christmas eve? No politician normally works during Christmas. It was not because it was so time sensitive and important that it should not be carefully considered for a greater length of time. It was because they knew the American people were distracted and they would have less resistance from them. They only would have to deal with cutting deals with their own on capital hill. This video describes perfectly what your're talking about:

Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky Addresses the Senate

[grubstake]

What we need, is to get all the politicans out that are making it a career, and limit it to 2 terms, in the house and senate, thats 2 for life, after that they can't run for office anymore. Take away there ability to give themselves pay raise's, take away there health care! Make them get what we get, take away there life time re-tirement pay, and all the per-demem pay they get, its like $350.00 hell me and my wife have to eat all month on $300.00. Take away the limosines, make them drive there own cars. These folks up there are jacking up taxe's, taking away our right. Hell they work for us. WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE? They think its ok to be gay, or have afairs on there wives, and they think there all above the law! and whats more they think, there above us all. Grubstake

[Guest dennis sanders]

What we need, is to get all the politicans out that are making it a career, and limit it to 2 terms, in the house and senate, thats 2 for life, after that they can't run for office anymore. Take away there ability to give themselves pay raise's, take away there health care! Make them get what we get, take away there life time re-tirement pay, and all the per-demem pay they get, its like $350.00 hell me and my wife have to eat all month on $300.00. Take away the limosines, make them drive there own cars. These folks up there are jacking up taxe's, taking away our right. Hell they work for us. WHO DO THEY THINK THEY ARE? They think its ok to be gay, or have afairs on there wives, and they think there all above the law! and whats more they think, there above us all. Grubstake

[mohayes1046]

Amen DOC, I'm a VET, can go to the vetrans hospital, but the last time I went, back in the 70's the care was so crappy, I would not go back, and I'm on there Agent Orange registry, and Had and still have bad foot and skin problems, from being in Nam for two years. They just didn't treat you right then, I don't know how it is now. Why are they Having the Corn Gate, and Louiseana perchase? What happened to all the promise's that Obama made?

Here's a story for you, this factory was going to have to lay off 66 works, because of the bad economy, and the owner couldn't figure out how to decide who to lay off, so he though about it over night, and the next morning went out into the parking lot, he found the first of the cars, with VOTE FOR OBAMA stickers on them, and kept it up until he counted 66, the next morning he layed off every one with VOTE for OBAMA stickers. He said you get what you vote for. Grubstake

I agree whole heartedly Grubstake! The best thing we can do now is let our votes do our talking THIS YEAR. We MUST vote against ALL incumbents that have been shafting across the board and been in office to long. The ONLY exceptions would be to vote for those who take their job seriously and follow through with what their constituants want done.

The VA Medical system has greatly improved in the last 5 years and with the influx of all the new Vets from Iraq and Afghanistan they are expanding a LOT more to acommodate the tremendous numbers. Don't let them beat you Grubstake, keep pushing them until you get what help you need. They seem to be playing a game of attrition with us Nam vets.

Mark

Slick Driver '66 - '67

[1Boeing737]

I agree with voting out the career politicians also as far as term limits. Doc's post clearly indicated that checks and balances are at stake, and ramming any agenda unconstitutionally down our throat without a true majority consideration seems to be a normal route these days for the politicians now at hand. Aside from politicians, with the housing, and banking, job losses that continues to further erode, weakening our dollar more because of previous toxic loans, and dipping more into the government credit card accounts to fix the problems is financial suicide, unless we can make all people great and small no matter how much they want to achieve, or prosper limited to our own agendas. This sounds like slavery, but under a different definition. Making one purchase this health care proposal , and then, going to jail eventually for not participating should be the wake up call. I would fear not being able to be productive in my old age with a financially broke incompetent government system that is already in place, and which may see me as a financial liability to their own social agendas during my old age. Put the math to this. We have X amount of doctors, more inventory coming on line, and a system that is already broke because of incompetence. There will be waiting lines, and a few will be left out. Which should = a system much less than what it was. Why take a broken vase and shatter it more than it already is to only find out it will be much more difficult to put together in the end. UNLESS there is more agendas to come from this after completion. Like Doc said, it don’t take a rocket scientist, and one should carefully analyze the real tradeoffs here, and see what is forfeited. You don’t get something for nothing.

Mark

[El Dorado]

DOC.... your contribution did the trick, todays headline:

Mass. Senate poll shows shift toward GOP candidate

[El Dorado]

DOC.... your contribution did the trick, today's headline:

Mass. Senate poll shows shift toward GOP candidate

[Hawkeye]

Hello fellas

Well, just my two cents worth, well maybe 25 cents worth. To make it kinda short my wife has worked at our local Hospital here in Grass Valley for some 30 years. She has worked in just about all the clerical departments and has been in the accounting department for at least the last 16 or 17 years. I can tell you this from what I've heard from her is that its been the governments attempt to fix health care that has screwed it up. Look at medicare. For those using it it might seem a good thing but if your a doctor or a hospital good luck getting reimbursed for services and supplies. Just try to find a doctor that will take on new medicare patients. There is reason they won't. Its been laws put worth to protect medicare that have crippled the system as a whole. I also wonder why people such a I who have health care insurance until I die are forced onto medicare at age 65? Also wait until those that think it will be just wonderful to have this single payer system have to pay the deductibles that will come with it.

If they would come up with a system that everyone paid into maybe it would be acceptable but there are so many exemptions in this plan that the only people that will pay into the system will be the ones that can afford there own health care now. I will end up having to pay an excise tax on my health care benefits. Whats far about that?? I made a career change twenty years ago to a job in the department of corrections so I would have a decent retirement with health benefits for myself an family and for my efforts I will now have to subsidize others who didn't have the foresight I did. What will happen when there will no longer be anyone paying into the system?

Thanks for putting up with my ranting.

Take care everyone, Wes

[rexb]

DOC.... your contribution did the trick, todays headline:

Mass. Senate poll shows shift toward GOP candidate

Well Gentlemen, it's my understanding that the great state of Massachusetts has a Republican Senator, not since 1972.

Brown - Scott GOP 407,727 52%

Coakley - Martha Dem 365,672 47%

[grubstake]

WAHOO! Do I smell filabuster? Grubstake

[Frosty]

DOC,

I'm with ya 110% and even though I didn't send $$$ I contacted relatives in Mass. and told, yes told them to do what is right. They must have done so because along with my prayers to the almighty, me threatening the relatives and your contributions it worked!

Stay safe & watch your back - Frosty

[enigmatic]

Alright!!! Congrats Senator Elect Scott Brown...finally the break we needed has come threw! Now I hope he will crush the so called Health Bill...I have spent years earning my health bill in the Military and support there of after the fact. I dont like it when Uncle Sam changes his commitments. It should Honor it's commitments, I Honored mine. The Politicians work for us the people, they should not ramrod some piece of legislation that seem to have alternative motives and even if it was a good idea...we cannot afford it! 10 trillion in the hole and I cannot even understand one trillion and most people cannot understand that number either. I must admit the Dems must be on conference call right now doing damage control and how to push the bill threw now! Guido

[1Boeing737]

I'm not to condfident yet. I only see to this as a speed bump to Progressivism, or Marxism. Time will only tell. I'm looking at Rick Perry, and Sen. Hutchison as saying no to issues such as health care,borders, tax reform ect here in Texas, and then changing the agenda around. I hope this next election phase will be the beginning of the dog not chasing the tail anymore. Term limits is a must, and it will help prevent corruption.