Should the manufacturers stop making new detectors?

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi,

Maybe it is my imagination, but this last year it seems that people are getting grumpier all the time about new machine releases. The Minelab X-Terra 70 upset a lot of people. The Fisher F75 has raised a howl of protest. And the new Minelab GPX-4000 already has the bashers out.

Maybe it is because I am jaded a bit, and have been around long enough to know that new units simply will not offer much in the way of true performance advantages. And so my expectations being low, are rarely disappointed.

But I have to admit I still get excited over a new machine release. Detecting is my thing, and playing with new units is part of the fun for me. It is always the quest for the unit with the perfect feel, the perfect sounds... something that looks good! And if in the process I get 1/10th more dpeth or a bit more solid target information, all the better.

But these forums are getting to where they are no fun anymore. It is one thing to make some observations based on use of a unit, but any more people are bashing away within 24 hours of a product announcement. Sure, I suppose I can make some observations myself just based on a picture and a spec sheet, but it sure seems lately like it is just getting nastier.

I made an announcement of the Minelab GPX-4000 on another forum. A guy comes out, and promptly labels the new unit a non-performer and me a liar - for things that were not even said!

People bitch about the detector industry, as if it is any different than other industries. Every year you get new tennis shoes, new fishing poles, new baseball bats and tennis clubs. New pants and new hats and new guns and new cars. Is this years car any better than last years car?

All I can say is I feel lucky we get the number of new units we do, and I hope for more. We are a niche market, one that would be easy to ignore. I do see incremental improvements.

But the fun of new units is getting lost on the Internet. Every machine has issues, but mostly I want to try and figure out what a machine is best at, and try and leverage that to my advantage. So it is not only fun but helpful to get on the net and get with other enthusiasts about a new machine and its features.

But I swear, it got so nasty on the Finds Fisher Forum, with not only ripping the F75 but numerous personal insults being flung around by various parties, I just got disgusted. Just reading the stuff raises my blood pressure, and I have enough stuff in life already for that.

So I'm appealing to folks to keep it fun. Sure, make critical comments about silly features or lack thereof. But I for one can do without the idea that every new machine is an attempt to rip us all off, and the personal attacks. Us dealers have feelings too!

Steve Herschbach

[grubstake]

I think the new 4000 is going to be a hit, now if the next one will just be softwhere based, so you can maybe pay mine lab, to down load the new features that they come up with, it would be great. They do it on cars and trucks, you can download or buy a chip, to ajust for power and torque and such, why not on detectors, they would still make money, and not have to produce new detectors for awhile, just up grades, you could download on your PC. Grubstake

[rexb]

As has been said I don't think anyone is forced to buy the latest PC, or a brand new car, these come out annually, it's nice that the same is true of Minelab models. It's good to be critical and discuss desired improvements, and I would like Minelab to inform dealers in advance, and to be a little less "bandwagonish" (not a word I know), etc. but I guess I can't complain about a new model, I don't know enough about it. PS That lithium ion battery must be delivering some juice, it's huge . I guess I could go on but my work break is up. Sad that accusations are foisted upon everyone, blame is easy to pass around when you're uninformed or unhappy.

[Denny]

Steve i hear ya .How if someone has not tried and efectivley can use the unit say it is flawed.I know that i have not used one yet.But minelabs reputation tells me it will do what they say.Waiting for mine to get here

[impactco]

The bottom line is that Minelab is in business to make money. They are arguably the ONLY game in town when it comes to the best PI gold detector technology currently available. By virtue of this, they can charge whatever they want and people will flock to buy their product. This may not seem “fair†and some individuals complain how it is a big ripoff and how Minelab is taking advantage of them. Well boo hoo! If you can’t take it, go buy a White’s, or a Garrett! If you don't like Minelab's business strategy, by all means don't buy their product. If you want the best of cutting edge technology, buy a Minelab and pay the price.

Although the idea of a software-based unit that is upgradeable is technically possible and interesting, I doubt this will ever happen since there is no motivation on Minelab's part to do this. With every incrementally updated machine (GPX, 3000, 3500, 4000) they make money and again, they have NO competition. Until someone else can develop better or even EQUIVALENT technology to that of Minelab, this will just be the way it is. I personally have owned a GPX, a 3000, a 3500 and will own a 4000 as soon as it is available. Every one of these detectors has been better than the previous unit in some way. I'm sure that Minelab has a whole list of features that it is holding back for inclusion in the next model. Why do they do this? Because they can! I'm certain that the next model GPX-4500 or GPX-5000 is in R&D right now and they have a schedule to release it sometime in 2007 or 2008 or whenever sales of the 4000 start to fall off. It will, as usual, have a number of incremental improvements. When it’s available, people will buy it!

[29prospector]

Steve,

I agree with you completely. I know how a Minelab works because I've seen it at work in the field. I can also say I've seen Whites and Fishers in the field working. To bitch about something does no one any good. I have a large arsnal that consists of: GB2, Keene 151 & Keene Puffer, 3 Hermit Picks. And when my budget allows I will add a Minelab, but until then I will see and read about how good they are. Life is way to short to gripe.

Bob(aka 29 Prospector)

[Reno Chris]

Hi Steve:

Don't let the nay sayers get to you. Its a good thing that minelab is regularly improving its detectors. The small incremental changes do add up over time.

It will be a while before we have folks posting about their experiences with the new unit. You may not be able to do much gold detecting with yours until the weather warms.

Yep, I am sure Minelab is doing R&D work on the GPX 5000 (or whatever it will be called). Moving the digital screen to the handle like so many VLF detectors have seems to be a likely modification. I hope they also give a digital readout of the target signal - I think all the info you can get about a target will help.

All that said, its unlikely that I will be upgrading my old GPX for a GPX4000. Now maybe the 5000....

Chris

[grubstake]

I like improvement myself, I was watching a show about when the first explores came to settle here in the states, Did you know they were only allowed to have shovels that were made of wood! Yep thats right only wooden shovels. Iron shovels were only allowed after we gained our free dome from England. I saw that on the history channel. Kind of holding out on tecknology. So its better for us, the more they let us have, no matter how many steps it takes them to get it to us. Grubstake

[Reg]

Hi Steve,

I don't think you are going to like my response since I read your post and the other guys response, but here goes anyway.

First, the guy responded and based upon his opinion, something we are all entitled to do. Second, your post was also based upon your opinion of a detector that isn't even out yet, something you are entitled to do. Was he wrong in what he said? Did you hype the new detector like he implied rather than wait until it was out to "bless this new detector"? Lets see what the facts are.

First, since the ML 4000 isn't out yet, then any post about how great it is is pure speculation, regardless of who states it. Many people will treat this as hype. Granted, it is based upon ML's reputation, so chances are, the machine will be good. However, your post stated "If you are into sheer power, I mean power like will make your favorite VLF seem like a toy, then check out the new Minelab GPX-4000". The heading for this post was this "Time to quit playing with sissy detectors!".

Now, Steve you have a good reputation based upon telling the truth. You also stated you are a dealer. Now, if someone doesn't know you that well and sees a dealer make the statements you made, is he wrong to consider it hype and to hype a machine when you are a dealer? Be perfectly honest with yourself and ask yourself if your post doesn't sound like hype. Would you think it was dealer hype if it had been posted about another detector by a dealer?

Lets face it, much of what the guy stated has been stated and debated over and over again on other forums and that was, the GP's didn't go deeper than the SD's. That is the basics of what he stated and implies he doesn't believe the 4000 will be any better since it won't go deeper. In fact on another forum there has been debate as whether to go back a model or two from the GP 3500. Are they wrong to have an opinion? Better yet, are their opinions wrong?

Now, one other perspective of what you stated on that forum is you implied that VLF's are a waste of time since they are "toys" or "sissy detectors". My guess is you didn't think about your potential insult at the time as being an insult to anyone who develops or designs VLF's. Remember, your statement implies any VLF is a Sissy detector, especially when compared to the ML 4000. Ok, you basically just stated that George Payne is wasting his time by designing the new Micro Mark 1, since it is going to be a sissy VLF and I am sure you know he reads and posts on that forum. Did you intend to insult him? I don't think you did, but even I took it that way.

BTW, I decided to post on this forum because I doubt that George Payne reads it. Personally, I have known George Payne for a very long time and consider him a very good friend. I also think he is and has been the greatest engineer to develop VLF's and metal detecting into what it is today. So, whatever he designs will be good if not great and is not a "sissy detector". Will it beat the ML 4000? Yep, I have no doubt it will when used in its proper environment of coin hunting. Personally, I would expect the ML 4000 to suck at coin hunting. Will George's new detector beat the ML 4000 when gold hunting? Nope, but that is not what it is being designed to do. Does the fact it isn't going to be used for gold hunting make it a "sissy detector". Nope it doesn't.

George Payne told me something quite some time back as to why he stopped designing VLF's for the hobby market and that was, the technology had pretty well reached its limit. Was he correct? Yep, most of the designs since then have added very little depth. What has been changed are the general features and easue of use. Some improvements have been made by enhancing or enlarging coil sizes, but overall, depth capabilities have remained close to the same.

Unfortunately, this is also the case for PI's. I doubt we will see any signficant differences in depth capabilities but we will see improvements in features or ease of use. If the new 4000 just tackles ML's problem with external noise, it will be a dramatic improvment and worth the money. So, the 4000 could be well worth the money. However, it is a wait and see game at this time.

So, Steve, I am not trying to condemn you, but to point out how the posts look to a third party.

As for the rest of the world and those of you who think I am criticizing the ML's, this is my opinion and worth every penny you paid for it. (grin)

Reg

[grubstake]

Heres my total take on this thing, #1 its a hobbie for me, I don't do it to make a living, I do it to relax and get away from people.

#2 If your in to golfing, you buy the latest set of really expencive golf clubs, pay green fee, run up a bar tab, join the club house, pay dues and pay to take lessons. Expencive! But for some a hobbie and relaxing also. No money to be made just fun.

#3 Off road jeeps and dune buggies, you can get alot of money tied up in them, Expencive and fun, no money to be made, but a good relaxing hobbie.

So many things to do as a hobbie, but detecting you can make some money, if you get over the nuggets, and you can make your equipment pay for its self over time, and have a hella lot of fun doing it. So that my take, no matter what hobbie, everyone wants the latest and greatest toys. And always will. Some will get them. Some will pass until something rings there bell. Grubstake

[FlakMagnet]

It has been interesting to watch the forums buzz with news of the 4000.

There is just no way anyone can have much to say that will turn my head

until an experienced operator has gotten his or her mitts on it

and has used it in the field.

but it's a fun read...

best,

Flak

[Reg]

Hi Grubstake,

How in the heck are you doing? Hope all is well.

You have hit the nail on the head when you say gold prospecting is a hobby. Unfortunately, we as humans or near humans take our hobbies seriously, much like we take our sports. If you think I am kidding just watch a football game and admire some of the costumes people wear. It is too bad we don't do the same when nugget hunting. If we did, it could add some real color to the hobby.

The first thing we do is brag about or defend our hobby and then the next thing you know is the war is on. You know the stuff like 'my coil is bigger than your coil, or my coil can beat up your coil' or something like that. The next thing you know the battle lines are drawn. People join the coil of the month club just in case they need to duel with another detector user. If it isn't coils, it is batteries or amplifiers, maybe headphones or even digging tools.

This is the one of the hobbies where we brag about things that make us work. Jeez, somehow that takes some of the fun out of it when you think about it.

Steve is correct, we need to keep this fun, rather than condemming anyone who differs in opinon. Unfortunately, that also takes some of the fun out of it. Bitching is an American pastime. What really needs to be done is people need to be more careful in the selection of words when trying to keep it fun.

One of the things I didn't mention in my previous post on this thread, is the guy who posted his opinion that he didn't expect the ML 4000 to be any better because it won't go deeper, was most likely posted by a guy in OZ. There they take the depth thing more seriously than we do because of the larger gold gold that is known to be there and the frustration of not being able to detect it. So, for him, I suspect the key ingredient to the ideal a truly better detector is increased depth. Anything other than that is fluff.

BTW, how did I come to the conclusion the guy was probably from OZ? Simple who uses the word "barrow". It isn't a household word here in the US that I know of.

Also, I got the opinion that the guy has followed ML's history quite well since he discussed about ML's hype of great depth capabilities. For those of you who do not remember some of the hype, it was ML that stated their detectors could get 3 times the depth of a VLF. Most of you who have done a lot of testing know this was pure hype in most cases. About the only place this could hold true was in a location of almost pure black sand. So, ML did have a history of hyping their detectors.

Ok, in this case, I think the guy was conditioned to respond the way he did. Unfortunately, we all become conditioned in one way or another, so we will respond differently. As an example, if you slap a guy across the side of the head every few minutes, it won't take long (for most people anyways) to have a tendency to duck when you flinch.

One other down side is if someone aims at you with the criticism, each of us panic. That is human nature. The word ego is only three letters long but packs a wollop. It is easily bruised and seems to need to be defended. That is the near human aspect of all of us.

So, getting back to what you said, we need to treat this as a hobby. Also, as Steve mentioned, we need to make this fun. The best way to do this is to minimize the bragging of what is best or better than others and simply concentrate on the postive aspects of whatever is being discussed. Weaknesses should be disussed but even they should be tackled in a positive manner if possible.

Hopefully, some good will come out of this entire thread.

Cheers,

Reg

[grubstake]

Your right RG, I love my 2200, would I like to have a 3500, you bet, but my pocket book won't let me. so I make do with what I have, by learning the detector, as if it was and is an extention of myself. I have a FEEL for gold, I can walk into a place and feel if its a good spot or not, sounds funny, but its the truth, just a gut feeling. It has and will continue to bring me the nuggets. A spot is never worked out, if you miss a spot, say where a 1 grain nugget could lay, then you truely have not covered or worked the area out. That why I have been working two or three different areas over the past 6 years, Sure I get skunked sometimes, but not everyone playing golf can make a hole n one all the time either. Its the hunt that turns me on, once I've found a nugget, it can't be found again, another nugget could, but the one you just found is history, unless you drop or lose it. Its like a dream, the hunt is the main hobbie, the detectors are just tools, like shovel, and picks and pans, its how well you learn to use those tools, thats what makes it fun and a challenge. I love this hobbie, it helps me keep sane and improves my heath. I welcome all and any advances in tecnology that can come my way. Not to say I can run right out and get them, but it makes me feel good about yself, when I see someone with the latest and greatest detecor, hunt in the same spots I hunt in, and I'm getting the gold there not, because they think the detector does all the work. Boy have they got a big supprise coming. Grubstake

[scorpion]

Well I'll throw my 2 cents in!

I've had my GP3000 over a year! I am still learning how to use it, how to interpret the signals, which coils work better and where. There is still the learning curve on how to identify outcrops of potential gold bearing strata. At this stage of my development, having the latest and greatest probably won't make me any better. I haven't mastered the machine I currently have. So as a Minelab customer, I applaude the company for turning out a newer GP.

Minelab's drive is to make money and their core business isn't in making prospecting metal detectors. It is in locating unexploded ordinance and land mines. As to their prospecting side, I think that the R and D behind the GP series has been a steady progression of improving on the initial design. More features and more benefits as the design matures and technology improves.

Some improvements will be regarded as beneficial by some and not by others. Sort of reminds me of the marketing done on the cars that have sensors to turn on the windshield wipers when it starts to rain. I doubt that the few seconds needed to manually turn on the wipers and any risks associated with that time lag can really justify the cost to design and build the circuit. But in a market place that is saturated with models to chose from, it is the differentiation of the product from the competition that will make the sale happen.

And with all the critisism that gets batted back and forth about Minelab no one has come out with a machine that can compete at that price level.

Besides for most of us this is a hobby! If we wanted to make a living swinging our detectors, well we could always go overseas and make about 100K US$ sweeping for what else..............explosive mines. I think I'll just sit that one out and learn how to use my GP3000 the best I can..............at least until I can design my Kryptonite powered super depth penetrating micro imaging toroid flux capacitor using curved ray wave equation to the third order algorithum software for image processing pld machine.

Let Rob and others evaluate the unit and provide insight into the features and benefits. They can then compare and contrast the GP 4000 to other GP and SD units.......It is all smoke until someone here in the States gets on in their hands.

My your gold be where you look for it!

Regards

Karl

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi Reg,

Well, points taken, I guess. I was just having fun, that's all. I've been using VLF detectors since 1972 and have always advocated their use. See my post at http://bb.bbboy.net/alaskagoldforum-viewth...2&thread=32 for what I think is a fair assessment. The post was made before I heard of the new GP.

Anyway, I hearby promise to just keep my mouth shut in the future regarding new units. People will find out about them soon enough anyway, so no need for me to bother. It is one thing to be accused of hype. Quite another to hear "Why is it a Minelab dealer will always push a deeper barrow??.....because Minelab tells them to of coarse, but you would think a man, no matter how rich he is, would fall back on his morals and tell the truth every now and then.

Well, here is the truth for you. Most people who buy a metal detector to look for gold nuggets will never find any gold at all. So it matters not a bit what detector they buy. Might as well wave a broomstick over the ground.

If I insulted anyone I apologize. My intent was to be tongue-in-cheek, but that is hard to pull off on the Internet.

Thanks for all your informative posts, Reg. You have put a lot of great info out there.

Steve Herschbach

[Guest goldstudmuffin]

Just reading all the posts on all the forums about pissed off prospecters who just bought a 3000 or 3500 and most of the Minelab dealers trying to defend or justify the high price is better than going metal detecting. Do you guys really think the GPX 4000 will help you find more gold than you are currently finding? Maybe it's time for a reality check! There's still plenty of gold left within range of my 2100, I just need to keep my pick sharp inbetween digging 2 foot holes. I'll buy a new detector when Minelab comes out with a gold only detector.

Reg, if your coming down this year lets try to get together and do some detecting.

[Reg]

Hi Steve,

I hope I didn't offend you with my post. It wasn't ment to offend but to point out a different view of what was being discussed. Now, I didn't post all of what the other person said because I thought it to be offensive and I thought it was based upon lack of knowledge. Knowledge or lack of it is a strange thing.

I wouldn't be afraid of posting about new detectors. You have a lot of knowledge to share and people appreciate that. Unfortunately, not everyone is aware of that knowledge. Also, there will always be a few who are jealous of the knowledge or the ability to display that knowledge. As for me, I am jealous that you get to hunt for gold in Alaska. On the down side, I am too old and lazy to do anything about it like plan a trip or two.

As for your use and recommendations of VLF's, that is well known to those who have read your posts on the different sites. However, those who limit their web browsing can easily look at things differently.

We humans are strange creatures. I am not sure just why we become offensive or defensive at times. I guess that is why we are humans.

Your tongue in cheek post reminded me of something I wrote many years ago. I belonged to a coin hunting club and used to write articles for it. Well, the editor of the club newspaper thought it would be great to write a April Fools article, which I did. The article went on to talk about a new detector that could read the date of a coin when it was in the ground. To add to the humor of the story, the editor mentioned we needed something that would tell if the coin was upside down, so I went on and added the mythical company was finishing up work on a new version that could read the date even it it was face down. We named the company A PRO Phool. We thought everyone would catch on. Well we were wrong.

At the next meeting, people were anxiously waiting to see this new machine. One person had gone so far as to discuss just how this detector was working. Well, when we mentioned it was all a joke, some people got offended, and in this case, no other detector was discussed at all.

So, I guess people can get offended over the strangest things.

Reg

Hi Goldstudmuffin,

Right now, I am planning on coming down for a week or so. I don't think my dad will be coming though, but I haven't given up yet. Once he quits, I feel he will go down hill much faster. I hate to see that happen.

Anyway, once I firm things up, I will drop you and Rob an email. I would like to spend a little time back down in the Tucson area. I need to find a nugget there just for the principle of it.

Reg

[nuggethunting]

Hello Guys,

I'm for one glad Minelab keeps up on technology. Minelab being a big part of my business I have to use every machine and learn it well to answer questions. I've spent time on all the Minelab since the early GT15000. I've probably had the best success so far with the SD2100, GP Extreme and GP3500. I've found a lot of gold with the other machines, but found the most with these three detectors listed. I'm very excited to get my hands on the new GPX-4000.

I have no plans on selling my personal GP3500 metal detector. I'm very in tune with this unit and feel it's still the best gold detector on the market until I can prove out the GPX-4000. I'm confident enough to know if there are gold nuggets around I will find them with the GP3500.

I think the added voltage on the GPX-4000 could potentially mean more gains in depth. I don't care much about sensitivity, since the GP3500 could find nuggets down to under a grain. I'm sure the GPX-4000 will hold the same sensitivity level, probably even better.

I saw a claim where the Minelab GPX-4000 was getting approx. 4 more inches of depth over the GP3500. I'm not sure if this is a solid claim or not, but it's going to be interesting to test out. I have several patches already in mind to test for depth capabilities.

I know regardless of what the dealers have to say about it (before and after testing) there will still be skeptical people and people that dwell on "bashing detectors." Funny, the ones that do the most bashing are using Minelab detectors .... Go Figure.

I'm also glad to hear that all the aftermarket searchcoil will work on the new GPX-4000. I would hate to know I couldn't use my trusty old Coiltek 14-inch round or my Coiltek Joey Mono for tiny bits of gold.

I'm looking forward to reporting back my finding on the new GPX-4000.

On another note, I'm very honored to have friends like Steve Herschbach and Reg Sniff contribution on my gold forums. Both of these guys are great friends and I truly enjoy hunting gold with them. Reg is a huge knowledge base, especially when it comes to detector electronics.

Take care,

Rob Allison

[dutch john]

Ol' Dutch John here adding his two cents to scorpion (Karls) post. He might

be an ex-serviceman and understand the value of having a machine that

has the ability to "beep" on a tiny metal activating pin.

Whatever technology... VLF-type or PI-type... does not matter.

Any advancement in the technology that will add to better "Minefield"

de-mining of the hundreds of thousand of various anti-personnal mines

that are maiming and killing civilians in the so-called third world countries

is most important.

This continual development is critical... Minelab has been one of the leaders

in this R&D. So while the gold hunters are "pushing a deeper barrow", a

technician will also be using a more sensitive machine in de-mining the minefields.

Reg (Hello Reg) mentions George Payne. He developed the first civilian VLF-type

metal detector... the five-supreme (about 1973-4). And I believe the first military

mine detector, the SCR-625 series were primitive VLFs. They were developed

during WW-2.

One last thing... everyone keep your splended sense of humor and continue

to post needed facets leading to more nugget shooting. And if the 4000 is

foolproof, reliable, and can target a small sub-grain "bit" at a greater depth,

so will the military mine detectors be more able to do their job.

[Lamar]

Dear group;

I agree 100% with our esteemed associate Reg on this subject. Until the results from field tests are in, everything is based upon speculation and hype at this point. But, come on people, a 4" increase in depth???? If that claim is even REMOTELY factual, then it looks as if I will be in calling my pal Rob Allison once more so he can help lighten up my bloated bank account! What people can't seem to understand is in all of the gold fields which I've been in there is a layer of mineralization between the surface of the soil and the target. As you increase the output signal (the signal being generated by the coil as the magnetic field excites then collapses) the RF (the reflected signal) increases as well. Adding another volt or two won't do squat to increase the overall depth, my friends. Most likely, Minelab increased the voltage on the GPX4000 in order to handle the demands of the digitized circuitry which it seems to have been incorporated extensively throughout this new design. I also will stick by my guns with my hypothesis that ML has improved upon the audio circuitry in the GPX400 as well. If it uses new audio amps, noise filters and signal interpretors then it will also need the increased voltage to handle the increased demands. I'll even state that the audio gain has very likely changed from the previous models as well. Instead of the high pitched "background hum" that we are used to, I suspect that ML has gone over to a lower pitched audio and increased the target audio circuit amplification, thus making it easier to distinguish a target from the background clutter. This means that those once masked targets lying at the very fringes of the detectors' depth will now become unmasked and discernable, once again making those old thrashed out areas profitable once more. This is where the claim of 4" in increased depth has very likely originated from. Anyway, at this point, it's all conjecture and theory until the detector actually arrives in the field. But what the heck, it gives us something to do with our spare time...

Your friend;

LAMAR

[Reg]

Hi Dutch John,

You are right, George Payne did design the first consumer VLf, but he has has a lot more firsts under his belt. For those of you fairly new to detecting, George designed the first motion discriminator, the first target ID detector, the first with audio ID, the first with notch, the first with surface blanking and a few more I can't think of right now.

He also patented a pulse type machine in 1978 that ground balanced and had a form of iron discrimination. Unfortunately, at that time, the unit required a lot of heavy batteries so the design never really got off the ground.

Now, what some people know is he is now designing a new coin huting machine patterned after his famous Mark 1. What George mentioned was in all the years he designed machines he was always constrained by someone and never allowed to design the ideal detector. What he hopes to do with his new design is to incorporate all the features he has ever wanted to put into a detector in this new detector.

Unfortunately, once again, it will be aimed at the coin hunting market. So, I don't expect it to be the greatest on nuggets. However, some of the tricks he mentioned some time back just might make it work well there also.

Ok, changing the subject to the possibility of the ML adding 4 more inches in depth, this is going to take some doing. The reason I say this is because of the physics involved. There are maybe 3 ways to increase depth, and they are, 1. to increase the power into the coil and 2. reduce the noise levels so ne can better hear each and every target signal. The third is shorten the sampling time such that the return signal is the greatest.

Now, when I say increasing the power, I mean this is going to take some serious increases. One basic estimate about increasing the depth is a person has to double the power to add another inch. To add the next inch will require the new power requirements are doubled again. So to add just a few inches using this technique is going to require one huge battery.

The second technique is reducing the noise base. Since most of the noise generated internally occurs in the preamp, then some dramatic new designs are going to be required, since ML is already using one of the lowest noise amps out there.

The third possibility is shortening the time for sampling. This will allow the signal to be obtain when it is much greater, amplitude wise. Now the down side is to do this will require some innovative techniques to eliminate the existing time lags. Speaking from experience, this is no easy feat. It gets worse if higher power is applied since this will generate a greater pulse that has to be dissipated. So, it is sort of a catch 22.

The use of innovative coil designs may help, but Allan Westersten has one design tied up with a patent that switches a special winding in the receive coil. This is one of the more unique designs I have seen. Even with it, the minimum delay time is still longer than ideal.

So, it is not that easy to increase the depth much more than what it is now. So, I guess it a wait and see game right now to see just what improvements are involved.

Reg

[gazzaq]

Oh what a feeling to be in a position as a ML dealer and have access to the latest release of Minelab PI detector to run over their favourite spots. We buyers scrape up enough money to buy the lastest model and hopefully justify our decision with a little extra gold from our favourite spots, only to read about a newer model release that will BEAT what you just agonised over with the thousands of $ outlayed for the best of the best, as your hope sinks once again. If only I had enough money.

Gazza.

[Lamar]

Dear Steve;

I feel the reason why we seem to become grumpier with each new model detector is because we are getting older as time marches on. And yes, I would definitely like to see Minelab stop producing new PI detectors starting IMMEDIATELY! If they were to stop, then imagine what the prices of the older detectors would do. Instead of losing their value they will be gaining in value all of the time.

Your friend;

LAMAR

Dear Steve;

BTW, if you think we are grumpy, you should read what some of the Aussies are bitching about. They were complaining that the Americans got the press release for the new GPX4000 before they did! Wow, they'd bitch if you lynched with them with a new rope!

Your friend;

LAMAR

[scorpion]

Dutch John,

You are correct. Service men and women the world over and you and I would much rather hear that beep then feel or hear the click of an activation pin!

On another note:

What we all want is the imaging system used by the metorite hunters from Houston that are up in Kansas who have been sweeping a farmer's field looking for more metorites in the Brenham Metorite field. Well using a 3D Ground Imagaing Radar System, they located a 154 pound 18 x12 x12 inches in size metorite about 4 feet deep. Both men have been developing thier technology and have been sweeping an 8 square mile tract of land from the owner. The have been using sophisticated metal detectors ( don't mention any brand name ) to prospect their lease. Now there is a novel idea. Lesing a farmers wheat field to hunt for metorites! Over 15,000 pounds of metorites have been recovered from the area! Their 3D GPR system allowed them to image the object before digging it up. The Houston Museum of Natural Sciences helped to dig up the metorite.

The two split 50/50 with the land owner the amount HMNS is going to pay them ( $50,000)! It is worth 100,000. But HMNS paid for the digging up! So I guess that is fair! Although it seems that HMNS got the better end of the deal! Actually the land owner did!

What is interesting to note is that this is the first time they have had success using this system in heavier soils-lots of mineralization and feel that now they can incorporate this system into future Mars missions.

NO mention of what is the smallest object it can resolve or at what depth!

But it is the future for detecting: 3D imaging and sophisticated image processing and anaysis software.

Who wouldn't want to find and 154 poound gold nugget?

Beam me up Scotty! I might have to start paying more attention to those Iron stones I keep tossing aside!

Check out today's stories on Netscape and Yahoo News! URL is too long to post.

Have a great day everyone!

[grubstake]

Ah! Progress is good, I can remember the old BFO's not much depth, hard to run, now look what we have! Like I said this is a HOBBY! not many out there that make there full time living with a nugget detector. Enjoy the new detectors, if you want one get it! or just spend the money on goodies for the one you have to beef it up. I think one day you will see some major advances in detecting and who know maybe the 4000 is it! Wait for report from guys that get them, this is like tring to kill a eliphant with a BB gun. Take it to heart all advances in detector benifit us, not hurt us. Grubstake