"Old Hotrock in the Air Test!"

[montana]

Steve. The bulldozer is the great equalizer isn't it. Too bad they shed so muck track iron. In Australia we found that a 966 rubber tire loader worked great with only an occassional bucket shaving.---Bob

[AZNuggetBob]

Steve I dont have a problem with a box with layers of black sand and buried hot rocks and nuggets, and swinging the detector coil over it. Its when you lay the detector coil on top and pass a nugget under it that is deceiving in my opinion because the detector becomes balanced and is fixed in one spot and this is were the real deception comes in. AzNuggetBob

[Jonathan Porter]

I think a very good litmus test for the TDI would be to see how one operates in Australian soils, so far Whites must feel that is not a good idea because they are still not available from the Australian distributor which suggests the TDI needs a lot more work to even come up to scratch and equal the older Minelab versions such as the venerable SD2100 or SD2200 V2 which are going for a song these days brand new.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a Whites PI that works here and would be one of the first to buy one if for no other reason than nostalgias sake (fond memories of my Whites GM V-Sat). I have however played with a GS5B and am sorry to say was very underwhelmed and would even prefer to use an unmodified SD2000 instead.

JP

[Inhere]

Heck, whoever done the promo video for the Whites GMT. Included that balance a hot rock in the air and show how it could pick up a nugget under it.

Don't know what else was in it, cause I turned It off after that.

I forgive them but, cause it's not a bad detecter, no real need for BS.

[whats4supper]

Like I attempted to say before, every detector has its quirks and idiosyncracies, and no one detector does anything and everything, the reason for manufacturing experimentation and innovation.

One thing that I did not say clearly enough is about detection angle. I find it odd that one can find a nugget going in one direction and miss completely good targets at the same time, unless the orientation of the operator and detector changes and goes back over the same ground from another direction.

This is true of coinshooters, nuggetshooters, PI's and beach hunting. In essence, say you go from north to south and find a nugget or coin. It may pay the detectorist very well to try again at south to north, east to west, west to east, and diagonally.

Though the whole thread is about cons and tricks used by sales staff, there are times that the balance acts work in the field, and other times they do not. Sales staff, if they really are above board, will give emphasis to the fact that to really use a detector to its engineered ability, requires regular exercise and experimentation, and unless a purchaser is willing to 'marry' their rig, recovery results may be far different for some, than for others. Any prospective purchaser would be making a mistake (in my opinion) by buying from a vendor that does not actually go into the field and use the products they sell or represent. Rob is certainly willing to do this, and coach the buyer, within reason.

My own solution when attempting to fine tune a rig is to get an actual nugget, tape it between clear tape, and experiment by burying it at variable depth and angles. It can be a surprising exercise, and lead a person to details that otherwise could remain obscured. this works for coins and relics as well.

Overall, some detector sellers offer a rental, or try before you buy situation. But outside of feedback from actual experienced detectorists and clubs, using a detector and finding out the limits and feedback of any given machine requires months or years to successfully interpret. Adding to that effort is the variability in different coil sizing and makes.

I bought 7 detectors so far, and still am learning a new curve on every one. I have found that some work better for an entirely abstract use than what is promoted by the manufacturer (for instance, GB series detectors work excellent at the beach for all sorts of relics), or with ground mineralization that would 'kill' another detector. While I like auto tune in some detectors, in others, that offer this feature, I prefer manual tune. Then there are the challenges involved with working around powerlines, emt caused drift, battery or internal electronics variation, and scan proximity.

Just like everyone else that has posted on this thread, everyone has their own opinion, and their own setup, and their own prowess in using the equipment.

Again, I do agree with buying from an informed and above-board dealer. I also tend to purchase from the local with whom I can go back and forth for added instruction or detail, as well as user options.

Nothing is 100%.

[wonderer]

Hi all,

I've seen salesman at 3 differant prospecting stores use this ploy on VLF style machines to nubies.......

One in S------, P------ , M--- (all in AZ).....snake oil salesman are everywhere & making the metal detector look like a magic wand to treasure, is there pitch.

Hell I even think the G--- hype is more about fleasing the nubie of cash.

NOBODY as a nubie knows what machine to get, unless he has a friend that shows him the ropes, they are just a mark with money burning a hole in there pocket.

Thats why I like Steve H.'s honest posts on metal detectors (not brand posecific dealer)

& Reg's postings on how different machines & coils work.

Everybody has a favate machine, maybe because of weight, detecting debth, cost, ect., ect.

Just my opinion Might be nice if dealers had rental demo metal detectors I know it won't happen because after spending a weekend digging up a lot of trash (part of metal detecting) the luster of the magic wand will fade & they would lose a sale, except for the diehard's....

wonderer

[montana]

Wonderer. You are right about the rental detectors. A day digging trash would discourage most people , but if that same person had paid big money for a detector, he would stick with it until he could justify making the purchase. It's the human condition.

AZNUGGETBOB. You are exactly right. A stationary coil with the target moving has no bearing on what the detector will do when swung over hotrock laden mineralized ground. Some of the blacksand and hotrock box guys actually believe that what they are demonstrating means something. They often aren't very good detectorists, but good at making sales by whatever means. This thread may be the beginning of the end of the "BOX". Many years ago when desperate for a job , I gave the door to door vacumm cleaners sales a try . I was lousy at it because I saw the deceptions in the demo I was taught to give. Others were successful with it either because they actually believed in the demo or just flat didn't care if it was deceptive as long as it got the sale.----Bob

[nuggethunting]

Hey Montana and All,

I was the say way, I tried sales a long time ago when I was younger and they actually taught us to tell the customer anything to get the sale. They called it some "aggressive sale tactic," but I seen it as a way to ripe people off. Long story short, I couldn't sleep at night knowing I was telling people BS information about a product.

That is one reason I love my business. If I didn't sell another metal detector it wouldn't effect my lifestyle one bit. However, I have such a great passion for it I've decided there is no reason to not sell them. I'm using and selling a product I've used and backed 110% for the last 16 years.

I hate to tell these stories, but about a year ago I bumped into a guy along the Black Canyon River metal detecting. I ended up walking down to where he was hunting and we chatted for bit. When I first looked down I noticed he was using a Minelab X-Terra 30. I just figured he was out coin/relic hunting old sites along the River until he said he hasn't had any luck in the last three months. As much as I hated to tell him, I told him the X-30 wasn't a nugget hunting metal detector and it would take a pretty good sized nugget to sound off. Once I told him this his face expression turned to disappointment. He said when he purchased the unit he specifically wanted a detector that would find gold nuggets, but something he wouldn't have to pay a whole lot for. Well, I'm not going to name names, but the same old BS. The dealer tells him this unit wil find small gold nuggets ....

Several months later I was actually dredging near this location and hear comes another guy with an X-30. Same old story, same old dealer.

Really pisses me off! Some people (regardless of what you're buying) will tell you anything to make the sale. It's probably much worse now due to the poor economy, but that is no excuse in my book. DO THE RIGHT THING!

Take care,

Rob Allison

[wonderer]

Wonderer. You are right about the rental detectors. A day digging trash would discourage most people , but if that same person had paid big money for a detector, he would stick with it until he could justify making the purchase.

montana,

In past discussions it has been said 10 to 15% of the metal detectest find 85 to 90% of the gold......

So the expense of the machine is hardly a modevator,to be a better metal detectorest..

Probley the biggest motivation is your better half ,saying you spent how much!! You better get right out there an find me some gold with that machine

wonderer

[Steve Herschbach]

Hey JP, long time no chat!

The TDI is not a Minelab. White's just needed to get their foot in the door and it ain't half bad for a first effort. Got to start somewhere. The next version down the road will no doubt be of more interest in Australia. But by then Minelab may have the GPX-10000 out and there won't be any gold left to find!

My TDI gets lots of use in town for coin and jewelry detecting. There are other markets out there for PI units. I think the unit being versatile is a good thing as most hardcore prospectors already have a Minelab and so there are few sales to be had in that market for the TDI anyway. Perfect unit for what I am using it for at Moore Creek though.

Steve Herschbach

[Jonathan Porter]

G'day Steve, yeh its been a while, hope the winter hasn't been too long for you? I would love to see the Whites become available here in OZ, the fact that it hasn't suggests it's not up to scratch yet but who knows maybe sometime in the future things might change. I appreciate your frank and honest remarks on all things metal detecting and am sure others on these forums think along the same lines as well. If I could find gold with a Garret Infinium then I'm sure I could find gold with the TDI as it sounds like it has a lot more sensitivity along with the greater amount of coil options.

Regards

JP

[Steve Herschbach]

Hi JP,

Yeah, well, mutual admiration society going here.

As you know I was one of the few Infinium defenders. I guess I tend to root for underdogs. Poor little thing had so much scorn heaped on it but it is a decent unit given the cost. The TDI has much better adjustability by comparison and of course the coil selection is superior. But you want waterproof the Infinium is it.

I try to find what a detector is good at. It seems most people focus on what they can't do. Never seen the point in that.

My invitation to Alaska is still open. I still think a tax deductible Minelab Adventure to Alaska DVD starring Johnathan Porter is a good idea. Alaska has some pretty good cachet these days. Who needs another darn detecting in Australia DVD anyway? Plenty of those around. The footage of a bear sniffing you up would be priceless!

Steve Herschbach

[Jonathan Porter]

Steve the only thing a bear would be sniffing would be a pile of steaming stuff leaf behind in my wake as I cut for it back to something bear proof. Just the thought of one of those things chewing on me gives me the heebies, at least our Aussie chewy man eating critters stick to the mangroves (were the gold ain't)

One of these days I'll make the effort and come on over but only if you reciprocate by popping over here for a bit of Aussie gold hunting.

JP

[jjbond]

Steve the only thing a bear would be sniffing would be a pile of steaming stuff leaf behind in my wake as I cut for it back to something bear proof.

JP, just make sure you're wearing better tennies (runners) than Steve so you can outrun him and the bear'll stop for him.

Jennifer

[jjbond]

Hi JP,

As you know I was one of the few Infinium defenders. I guess I tend to root for underdogs. Poor little thing had so much scorn heaped on it but it is a decent unit given the cost.

Steve Herschbach

Hi Steve, what are your thoughts on the Infinium compared to the Excalibur II 1000 for waste deep water, occasional submersion detecting... I'm about to make the plunge.. HAAAAA pardon the pun and buy a waterproof, this is two weeks now of rain and it'll be a good addition to the family.

Excalibur II or Infinium in your opinion (or Whites Beach Hunter/Surf PI Dual Field etc. if you have thoughts)?

Jen

[Jonathan Porter]

Go the Minelab and feel all patriotic, plus they have a brilliant discrim which is better for relics not nuggets. BTW look out for an underwater relic hunting DVD put out by Maple Tree Studios starring Gary Brun, Pat Watson and detecting expert Gordon Heritage (Gordon's expert discourse makes it worth the investment), well worth a look and coming out in NTSC version soon (Minelab Owners forum fame).

JP

[whats4supper]

looking through my favorites files/links, and came across this one from a few years back. I'm surprised that it's still intact:

http://arizonaoutback.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4303

kind of a hoot!

here's some more along the bounty hunter search lines:

http://arizonaoutback.ipbhost.com/index.ph...e=bounty+hunter

[jjbond]

Hi JP,

My invitation to Alaska is still open. I still think a tax deductible Minelab Adventure to Alaska DVD starring Johnathan Porter is a good idea.

Steve Herschbach

Steve/Jonathan

I reckon a package deal would be a great idea. A package of a week or two on Moore Creek with one on one training with Jonathan Porter... I'd sign up for that for sure... what a hoot that would be.. the best of both worlds, a great claim to work (Moore Creek) combined with an awesome instructor (Jonathan)... Where do I sign up?

PS: Jonathan, bring a bottle of Bundy with you.

Jennifer

_________________

Jennifer

E-Trac and GPX-4500 (and one in the oven, not sure if it will be an Excalibur or Infinium for rainy days).

[Jonathan Porter]

Jennifer you get your backside trackside here in Clermont and the lesson is on me!! However getting chewed on by something that thinks I might be a good snack gives me the heebies!! But I do have a good friend up that way who has offered to show me around (George White from this forum) plus I have read a book (thanks to George) called the Sourdough Sagas which leaves me with a hankering to take a peek at the country that supplied one of the last BIG gold rushes in the world.

I was taught gold nugget jewelry by a guy here in Australia (Herb Blake if anyone knows him) who was one of the first back into the Klondike area in the '60's, his stories blew my mind, such as finding log cabins with everything still on the table as if the owners had only just stepped out the door. One thing that I have a hard time getting my head around, they (the Klondikers) used to stop work when the mercury froze, friggen hell the stuff is liquid at room temperature how blooming cold does it need to get before the stuff freezes (solidifies)? and thats knock off time, jeepers , I tip my hat to 'em, that is some of THE most inhospitable ground on the planet, imagine how many virgin patches are laying up on those ridges just waiting for a metal detectorist? A few years ago I heard of a guy who lucked onto an unworked area in the klondike and all he had to do was doze the wash into a long tom (huge long sluice), the gold they got had to be loaded into 20 litre metal drums, kilos of the stuff (1000's of ounces), but they had to wait for the permafrost to thaw before they could start work!!!

Enough of waffling on I am sure there are plenty of other forum members who have far better stories to tell about Alaska than I can living here in OZ and only reading/dreaming about it!!!

JP

[jjbond]

Jennifer you get your backside trackside here in Clermont and the lesson is on me!! However getting chewed on by something that thinks I might be a good snack gives me the heebies!! B

Thanks JP, considering that you're an easy drive from Brissy via Bundaberg, where I'd have to do a layover of course I may just take you up on that one day.

By the way, the bears in Alaska are nothing compared to brown snakes and funnel web spiders... at least you hear bears coming.

Jen