way2cool Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 http://www.minelab.com/usa/consumer/knowledge-base/news?article=204672 End of January for more info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridge Runner Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 I be John Brown that looks just like the F 3. I know nobody can see that being it's blue now. You can see that the coils for this detector won't come cheap. Only time will tell from the field reports if one will want to buy it. Nothing has been said about the price but if run true to form 2300 hundred will be it. If that's the case the ATX and it not far apart in price. It's just who is better. I myself like the controls on the ATX all up front. Not sure but it looks as if 2300 controls is on the side. Price ATX 2120.75 Minelab 2300 2120.50.HaHa Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Chris Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Seems real plain they have re-used the F3 compact box. Lots of detector makers use of the same enclosure systems in different detectors. What counts is the electronics on the inside!Minelab's use of the F3 compact box is going to give us a waterproof to 10 ft. rating and a cable inside the shaft, fold up in seconds compact set up. Cable in the shaft will eliminate the cable falsing I often get when detecting through brushy, tall grass areas.The ATX is a re-use of the Garrett Recon box, but the ATX has improved electronics and that's what makes the difference there.I am quite sure the electronics will be a notable improvement over the F3, but we will have to wait to see exactly what ways it is improved until the product is ready for the public.I am intrigued by the note of a "visual target display" and wonder where on the detector it will be located. Looking at the picture, it doesn't seem like the handle is where its going, though that would be the best place. A visual target response means its not just a setting display like on the GPX 5000. I wonder what will be displayed: Target intensity? Iron probability when discriminating? Mineralization readings? I guess we will find out eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridge Runner Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Chris White's used a box on the TDI they had used on the Eagle 11 that I have had from over 20 years back. Why would any company come out with a new box when they have a good one and just what they need now. When I first reported about a new gold detector coming from Minelab I was excited. I'll be more excited when I see the field report from guys like Rob A., Chris G. and Steve H. if he can get his hands on one. Waiting to hear more and see more on the 2300 Minelab. On Minelab site they show the 2300 a three star and the 5000 a five star but in the right hands the 2300 could move up a star. Hey Minelab send me one and if I like it I'll send the money in but if not I'll send the detector back. Where else can you get a offer like that. Only in America. Chuck PS I've been calling Minelab 2300. Well that is wrong it's Minelab SDC 2300. Does the SD sound like something from the past? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 Well that's to bad.....I was really hoping they would just come out with a GPX 2300 built on the same platform as previous SD`s & GP`s. Interchangeable coils and all that cool stuff. I don't feel like this will be taken as a serious gold machine even though it is touted as so. The compact feature is nice though, and definitely could hold a position/purpose out in the field. Cant wait to see some people using it for real, not just "testing" it. What is MPF? Multi Period Frequency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridge Runner Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 If this detector is not a PI detector then Minelab just shot themselves in the foot. I really don't care how ugly it is as long it's worth the money. If Minelab is going to sit on their butt until Jan. sometimes before they put it on the market. Then I ask why ? Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whylee Posted December 9, 2013 Report Share Posted December 9, 2013 If this detector is not a PI detector then Minelab just shot themselves in the foot. I really don't care how ugly it is as long it's worth the money. If Minelab is going to sit on their butt until Jan. sometimes before they put it on the market. Then I ask why ?Chuck It is a PI detector for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Well the new 2300 does have (MPF) Multi Period technology?. Is this a new version of Multi Period Sensing (MPS)?. I was hoping the 2300 would have (FBS) Full Band Spectrum 1.5-100KHz but I guess being a mid-ranged detector it cant have all of the best features or Technology of the GPX at about half the price. maybe it will be included in the 2400. AzNuggetBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkirkll Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Maybe in the SDC/MPS -Extreme.....or the SDC/MPS-V2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Maybe in the SDC/MPS -Extreme.....or the SDC/MPS-V2 Thats a good one, Congress Man :D Kyle 17 bands is good to know but unfortunately not full spectrum. AzNuggetBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Thats a good one, Congress Man :D Kyle 17 bands is good to know but unfortunately not full spectrum. AzNuggetBobBut a lot better than one or even three or two like the old SD's . AzNuggetBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Thats a good one, Congress Man :D Kyle 17 bands is good to know but unfortunately not full spectrum. AzNuggetBobFull Band Spectrum refers to VLF machines. It has nothing to do with Pulse Induction. The Sovereign was a 17 band machine. The Explorer and E-Trac are 28 or Full Band Spectrum machines. You are getting the technologies confused. There is no such thing as FBS for pulse induction machines.DocMinelab Certified Gold Machine Instructor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Doc I hate to use the phrase (spectrum) when I think frequencies is a better term and has everything to do with PI's and VLF's. AzNuggetBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 AZ Bob I think you are confusing FBS with the different timings which is the SETA technology. SETASETA (Smart Electronic Timing Alignment) is a highly complex method of matching the characteristics of individual Timings with continuous measurements from the surrounding electromagnetic environment, such as the earth’s magnetic field. This gives the advantage of improved detector performance through the complete removal of noise signals. The sensitivity across all Timings is increased, therefore SETA allows more gold to be found than any other metal detector technology.In the old SD there were two channels, one for deep large nuggets one for small shallow nuggets, you would run both channels at the same time. Then we moved into the GP series where DVT was introduced.Dual Voltage Technology helped find smaller gold because what they found is that pulsing one strong pulse of energy after the other into the ground was causing an oversaturation of the ground with energy, and the detector could not pick out small gold because so much energy was not producing a fast enough energy decay rate to see the little gold. By alternating the pulses between a full energy (voltage) and a lesser energy (voltage) pulse, they were able to see a quicker decay rate which helped detect smaller nuggets. If you recall in the GP series they did away with the dual channels because the Dual Voltage Technology worked better at finding small gold.Now we move into SETA added to DVT. SETA provides different pulse widths or timings to enhance the detector's performance. Long pulse widths cause a deeper penetration allowing you to find larger nuggets. Shorter pulses find smaller gold. For every size of gold there is an optimum pulse and voltage. However at this time it is not possible to run all of those timings at once because they are also integrated into an algorithm that optimizes performance for ground mineralization. So there may be an optimum timing for large deep gold in mild ground, but a different setting for large deep gold in heavily mineralized ground.I like to explain timings by using the analogy of a CB Radio and channels and fine tuning the CB antenna.Channel 1 to 40 represents small to large gold with different ground conditions.When you get a CB radio you have to "TRIM or TUNE" the antenna for optimum performance to eliminate "standing wave" or energy that is being lost and not used.The way you do this is to "TUNE" the antenna, this is analogous to a TIMING on the metal detector. You get a standing wave meter and put it between the CB radio and the antenna. It has a meter on it. You place the CB on channel 19. WHY? Because 19 is the emergency channel and it is right in the middle of channels 1 to 40. You optimize your CB to perform the best on Channel 19. You key the microphone while on Channel 19 and look at the meter. If it is not registering ZERO you have standing wave. So what do you do? You loosen the little allen screw in the base of the antenna and adjust the antenna up or down, and key the microphone again. You keep doing this until you have the antenna at the exact length that gives you ZERO standing wave on Channel 19. Now is is perfectly optimized for channel 1? NO Channel 40? NO. But it is within an acceptable tolerance.So the length of the antenna is like a timing. Right now the CB Radio is optimized to Channel 19, if it were a detector is would be optimized to find size 19 gold with whatever mineralization that number 19 represented to the machine.Could you optimize your CB for channel 1? Yes you would retune the antenna to channel 1, but it would be inconvenient.What if you want to find small gold in a worked out patch? SIZE 1 Channel 1 gold? Well with the GPX you optimize the detector not by tuning the antenna, but by changing the timing to FINE GOLD. Is it optimized for Channel 40 gold? NO! The FINE GOLD setting loses some depth. If you want to find deeper gold you retune the detector for a Setting like NORMAL.So what SETA does is give you the ability to optimize detector performance based on the ground conditions the depth of the gold you are looking for and the size of gold you are looking for. So Full Band Spectrum does not apply.I hope I did not confuse the issue.DocMinelab Certified Gold Machine Instructor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Thanks DocLet me go through this tomorrow. thanks for all the info. AzNuggetBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Doc I hate to use the phrase (spectrum) when I think frequencies is a better term and has everything to do with PI's and VLF's. AzNuggetBobFrequencies do not apply in Pulse Induction either, except for the fact that the detector searches through an entire array of frequencies to find one that has the least interference via the AUTO TUNE button to find a frequency that has the least amount of interference in which to operate. It is the pulse timings that are akin to the Frequencies in the VLF machines that I think you are referring to.Minelab defines timings as:TIMINGSTimings refer to the digital switching rates that control the internal electronics of the detector. In the GPX series of detectors the timings generate a pulse train to create the transmit waveform. The same timings generate synchronised switching signals to control the receiveelectronics. Selecting different timings and thus changing both the transmit waveform and synchronised receive switching signals have benefits for different ground types and targets. Minelab has created a range of different timings in the GPX series of detectors that achieve optimumdepth, sensitivity and ground balancing across different detecting conditions. Minelab defines Frequencies as:FREQUENCYThe frequency of a metal detector is one of the main characteristics that determines how well targets can be detected. Generally, a single frequency detector that transmits at a high frequency will be more sensitive to small targets and a single frequency detector that transmits at low frequencies will give more depth on large targets. Minelab’s single frequency technologies are VLF and VFLEX. Minelab’s revolutionary BBS, FBS and MPS technologies transmit multiple frequencies and are therefore simultaneously sensitive to small and deep large targets.BBS is 17 frequencies, FBS is 28 and refers to VLF machines only. Minelab does refer to their Multi Period Sensing in their Pulse Induction machines as a type of Frequency but their definition of MPS is:MULTI PERIOD SENSING (MPS)MPS (Multi Period Sensing) is Minelab’s advanced Pulse Induction (PI) technology that transmits pulses of different time periods. MPS also samples the receive signal at multiple time periods allowing target signals and ground signals to be separated. This effectively removes the ground signal from even the most highly mineralised ground while still being sensitive to both small and deep gold. This achieves superior depth in extremely mineralised ground.It is somewhat irrelevant at what frequency it performs these functions at because in pulse induction technology it is the pulse timing that is the critical factor. The only factor is that the frequency is one that is free of electro magnetic interference. This is why you can auto tune your detector to a frequency and then manually adjust that frequency up or down to fine tune a clean frequency to operate at.Technically lower Frequencies have a longer wave length and go deeper, while higher frequencies have a shorter wave length and go shallower and find smaller items. But this is not the overpowering factor in the operation of a Minelab Pulse Induction detector. It is the pulse width, the voltage or strength of the pulse, combined with the MPS that senses the changing mineralization and keeps the detector in balance and performs functions such as tracking the average decay rate of the pulse. The machine is actually operating at one frequency, which ever one the machine selected in auto-tune which was the most interference free.Minelab defines Pulse Induction as:PULSE INDUCTION (PI)Pulse Induction (PI) is a type of metal detecting technology. Pulse induction operates by sending short pulses of voltage to the metal detectors coil. These short pulses cause a magnetic field to be generated which quickly dissipates at the end of each pulse. Any metaltargets that induce the magnetic field remain magnetised for a short time after the end of a pulse. The target’s decaying magnetism is then detected by the detector’s coil.You may be confusing the Frequency with the Multi Period Sensing. Multi Period sensing once again has to do with the pulse of the detector, and more specifically with the way that pulse is received and analyzed. Minelab says: MPS also samples the receive signal at multiple time periods allowing target signals and ground signals to be separated. This effectively removes the ground signal from even the most highly mineralised ground while still being sensitive to both small and deep gold. This achieves superior depth in extremely mineralised ground.DocMinelab Certified Gold Machine Instructor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Bob,Rob and I sat through 5 days of instructions and had this stuff beat into us. They even hired Catholic Nuns to walk around and whack us with a ruler if we answered a question wrong. At the end of each day we had to take a test and pass it.That is why there are only about 25 Minelab Certified Gold Machine Instructors, and Rob and I are two of them.You will know the Certified Trainers when they display this logo:BCOT!Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Great I'm glad they beat that crap into your head for Five days, your wrong.Tell the nuns I said Hi.AzNuggetBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Geese Doc do you even know how a frequency is distributed???? now your really pissing me off. Stop the cutting and pasting crap..AzNuggetBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZNuggetBob Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Rob Im just messing with him. I know how hard you guys train to stay up with Minelabs. but I have to say next time I see him I'm slipping more black sand under his coil cover. AzNuggetBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridge Runner Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 I don't know if any of you have taken a good look at the SDC but if not this old fart will tell you. First put your eye ball on the two knobs on the front side of the detector. The top one looks like a on and off. The bottom one you can see has marks like 1 to 6 we'll say. Now looking at the side but back about 6 inches and pointing to the back is another knob. My thinking that all of the controls is on the side of the box. Remembering what Minelab said that this detector is a switch on & go. Garrett put out a great detector years ago with all the controls on the side and it was a coin machine. The trouble a lot of guys didn't like the controls on the side and they turn around to buy one that had them on the top. They couldn't get knock off but they didn't like having to turn it over to see what it was set at. I wonder one more thing is why C's to power it.!? One other thing and that is where does mid-range leave off at. I know that Minelab first had the SD's and they went forward from there but you could still buy the SD's for a long time. Minelab stop making them why would I want to go back in time for something that Minelab didn't think was good enough to sell. Why else would a company stop making them. White's makes the GMT and then made the GMZ with no bells and plain Jane as you can get. Yet it's detects like the GMT. So the new SDC is not a GPC or near it but a field report will say volumes. Another thing is why in the sam hill is Minelab waiting until next month when Santa is here now?? Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Bob perhaps you can tell me what frequencies the GPX5000 works on. Because it is not 17 frequencies, BBS, and it is not 27 FBS.So what frequencies does the GPX5000 operate on?Sorry you are pissed off. If I am wrong then Minelab is wrong because this is the information they are providing. Bottom line, starting with your original post, 17 frequencies Broad Band Spectrum and 28 frequencies Full Band Spectrum technology have nothing to do with Minelab Pulse Induction machines.Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridge Runner Posted December 10, 2013 Report Share Posted December 10, 2013 Here is something to read for anyone to understand more about PI. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/gadgets/other-gadgets/metal-detector4.htm Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2cool Posted December 11, 2013 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 What is MPF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin nuggethunting Posted December 11, 2013 Admin Report Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hey Guys, MPS - Multi-Pulse Sensing. I'm guessing MPF is Multi-Pulse Frequency or Multi-Pulse Fractional? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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