DOC Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Apparently people are having some difficulty understanding how a properly made rod should fit and are having issues installing the new rods on their coils. A customer said the head is bigger than the standard Minelab head. NO it is not. But here are some suggestions for installation to make it smooth and painless.The rods fit exactly they way they are supposed to. Please compare them with the head on the Minelab lower rod, the head is precisely the same; see the attached picture with the Minelab head and Doc's rod head in the caliper.The washers are a little thicker, so people don't have to over tighten the nut and bolt. A properly fitting lower rod should hold the head in place without a nut and bolt. Over tightening nuts and bolts crack the ears and strip out the nylon bolts and wing nuts.The rods easily slips into place with a little soapy water. You are dealing with a rubber washer and plastic and there is supposed to be friction between the two to hold the coil in place. Of course that same friction that holds the coil in place during use, will work against you when you are trying to install it on the coil, that is why a little soap and water works well to help the head slip into place. You also want to run the ears of your coil and the head of the rod under hot water to soften the ears and the washers up a little as we have not yet reached the summer months and really warm weather, so the rubber and plastic could be cold.If you don't like that solution, then remove the washers and rub them across a piece of sand paper until you take a little rubber off the washer, but this is not advised.Thanks!Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank c Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 I thought the same way when I started to install mine. But after closely inspecting the new rod and washers I noticed the washers were a bit thicker, which is a GOOD thing.I happened to have a spray can of leather seat cleaner/polish which is BASICALLY spray WAX. Any spray wax lightly applied to each washer will allow the rod to easily wiggle/slide into position for the thru-bolt. And won't hinder its holding power from friction when fully attached.It worked very easily for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLundy Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Doc,Since I'm the guy having problems with your new lower shaft heads fitting my NuggetFinder Advantage Coils. I still don't like your fix to my problem, I don't want to be totting around some soap or a thermos of hot water to switch between my Advantage coils in the field. If you'd like me to make a video of me or anyone trying to connect these together, I can attach it to this thread it will be of little problem.Like I told you in my e-mail I do have concerns of my 9x14 Advantage coil which I heard a large crack when trying to fit your new lower shaft and head to the coil. (no, I didn't hammer it in) You mention above that "some people are having difficulty" as I told you in my personal e-mail your lower shaft heads fit my Commander Coils and a Coiltek Coil perfect. Your new Carbon Fiber upper is fantastic and light weight. Most of all it is a great sales price for these inflationary times...it's just that your lower heads did not fit 2 of my NuggetFinder Advantage coils.Sincerely,LuckyLundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landoninlv Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Thanks Doc and others, good to know. Ill be by your shop soon to pick up a few. Cant wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paseclipse Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Like I told you in my e-mail I do have concerns of my 9x14 Advantage coil which I heard a large crack when trying to fit your new lower shaft and head to the coil.Hey Lucky I had the same problem trying to fit a Minelab lower shaft on one of my older NF coils a while back. However I haven't had this problem with any of my new NF Advantage coils because it seems they made the inside of the bracket a little bigger.Ironically I ended up getting a few of the Coiltek lower shafts. They seem to fit the bracket on the NF coils a lot better than the one Coiltek coil I have.Del Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank c Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Lucky thats exactly where I started when I got my rods on my 20 Nuggetfinder SL. I didn't want to pressure/stress the ears trying to get the rod head into place because I began assembling it dry. So that gave me the idea to lubricate it and when I gave both rubber washers a quick shot of the areosol spray wax it just wiggled into position. Try it bubba. it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvchris Posted May 3, 2011 Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Bar soap works well also, just rub it on dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dorado Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 "A properly fitting lower rod should hold the head in place without a nut and bolt"You are joking right? I like my coils to be flexible on the rod so it is easy to follow the terrain! Sounds like the washer needs to be a little thinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjbell Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Sounds like the best solution is to just lightly sand each (or one side) of the inside edge of the washer until you can fit it in to the coil in the field without any stuff to help it out. Get it to where it's snug enough but you don't have to work to get it in there. Then you can snug up your bolt to desired tension on the coil.Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 No I am not joking. The proper fit is that the head with washers should be snug inside the ears. That doesn't mean it doesn't move back and forth when you are detecting. It means that when you install the head of ANY rod with washers into the ears, you should be able to lift the coil off the ground without a nut and bolt being inserted. If you lift the rod and the coil falls off, that means you are going to have to overtighten the bolt and wingnut to squeeze the ears together to hold the coil in place, which is not right.No one expects anyone to take soap and water into the field. I know of very few detectorists that do not have each coil mounted to it's own rod. That was the purpose in offering these rods in multiples at a low price; so you could afford to have a separate rod for each coil. Mount the thing with soap and water at home ONCE! Then leave the coil on the rod.As far as the rod not fitting a NF coil? That's weird, I would think that NF makes their ears to the same spec as everyone else. We made the rod to fit a Minelab coil, and because the Coiltek coil is also made with the same distance between ears it fits the Coiltek coil as well.Doc"A properly fitting lower rod should hold the head in place without a nut and bolt"You are joking right? I like my coils to be flexible on the rod so it is easy to follow the terrain! Sounds like the washer needs to be a little thinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grubstake Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I had the same problem, trying to fit a stock lower rod in a nuggetfinder 14 E coil, one of the solid ones, I ended up grinding down both side of the rod, so it would fit, and its still on that coil. . Its one of the older stile coils. Grubstake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLundy Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Doc,I know a ton of prospector's that don't have each coil they own mounted with a lower shaft. I've seen a few prospectors that detect very close to their vehicle's and can easily accesss their vehicles when they would like to change a coil...not in my case.Now I want to make this perfectly clear...your lower shaft heads do not fit into my Nuggetfinder Coils Ears. I told you in my e-mail I had to grind it down to fit and that included the rubber washer. No amount of KY would have made any difference...enuff said.LuckyLundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azoverland Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Sounds like a NuggetFinder coil issue.... whatever.I switch coils using the same shaft. I like to carry a little Joey coil in my backpack and I keep all my coils in one bag when I travel. Not to much room in the Jeep. Heard the 40 inch lower shaft is too long for any coil wire , anyone using one???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Porter Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Doc,Now I want to make this perfectly clear...your lower shaft heads do not fit into my Nuggetfinder Coils Ears. I told you in my e-mail I had to grind it down to fit and that included the rubber washer. No amount of KY would have made any difference...enuff said.LuckyLundyLucky not trying to butt in or anything, but in the past I've had hassles with the older NF coils generating a memory in the mounting brackets if a narrower than standard Minelab issue lower iso rod is used such as the OTTO lower shafts. What happens is the bracket gets compressed in when tightening up the nut to get sufficient grip on the rubbers and then generates a memory in the bracket that is very hard to shift once they bed in (I've actually cracked some of mine in the attempt, especially during cold winters).Hope this helps,JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Yes, a slight flub up. When we made the 40 inch rod, we thought this will be great this should be long enough for anyone. We sort of forgot that the coil cables are only so long. DOH ! Stupid Stupid Stupid. So the bottom line is you can't extend the 40 inch rod all the way because it is too long for the cable on the coils.So I am probably going to have to take them to a machine shop and have them cut down, have a new hole drilled and reinstall the adjustment button.The length will be determined by how long the coil cable is. What I want to attempt to do is make it just the perfect length so you don't have to wrap the coil cable around the shaft at all.DocSounds like a NuggetFinder coil issue.... whatever.I switch coils using the same shaft. I like to carry a little Joey coil in my backpack and I keep all my coils in one bag when I travel. Not to much room in the Jeep. Heard the 40 inch lower shaft is too long for any coil wire , anyone using one???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Lucky,I am sorry if it did not fit your Nugget Finder coil. And I apologize if I didn't understand what you were trying to tell me. But I know those heads are exactly the same width as the Minelab rod heads. The washers were made to be a snug fit intentionally. Personally I am tired of breaking nylon bolts.Your email said; "They work fine on my Commander and Coiltek coils, and I'll use it for them."If they work on Minelab coils, then that is what they were meant to do. We use Minelab as the standard and if something doesn't conform to that standard, then we have an issue. Like a 40 inch long rod that no coil cable is long enough to accommodate; that is an issue.When I got the prototypes back I tested them on the 11 inch Minelab, the 12 X 15 Mineab Commander, the Joey coil, the WOT coil, and a variety of other Coiltek coils, they were all fine. They were snug, but I have had Minelab washers and rods that were snug too. I didn't have a Nugget Finder to try it on.As I offered in my email if they do not work for you send them back and we will refund your money. I made the rod to work with Minelab coils, if other coils do not conform to the Minelab's ear clearance, I don't know what I could have done. A smaller than standard head with various thickness' of washers maybe? I couldn't have foreseen an issue with Nugget Finder coils, I don't use Nugget Finder coils, so I don't know if the earlier models had narrower ears. I do know that if I use a coil over a long period of time and the washers wear down and I keep tightening the nut and bolt, even the Coiltek coils ears will come in just enough, because of worn washers, that when I put new washers on, it is a tough fit unless I warm the ears up.I guess the main point Lucky was trying to get across to me is that there may be an issue with my rods on some of the older Nugget Finder coils. So please be aware of this.As you are all aware, if you receive a product and you are not happy with it, please just let us know and we will refund your money.DocDoc,I know a ton of prospector's that don't have each coil they own mounted with a lower shaft. I've seen a few prospectors that detect very close to their vehicle's and can easily accesss their vehicles when they would like to change a coil...not in my case.Now I want to make this perfectly clear...your lower shaft heads do not fit into my Nuggetfinder Coils Ears. I told you in my e-mail I had to grind it down to fit and that included the rubber washer. No amount of KY would have made any difference...enuff said.LuckyLundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlakMagnet Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi DOC,Glad to have that rod deal cleared up. Maybe it's good to have a NF coil around in the back somewhere to test stuff like this with.Flak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Lucky stated that they are advantage coils so they are the newest series not the old ones.......Doc, I'm the guy having problems with your new lower shaft heads fitting my NuggetFinder Advantage Coils. your lower heads did not fit 2 of my NuggetFinder Advantage coils.Sincerely,LuckyLundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted May 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I don't know what I could have done about it anyway. If my rod fits a Minelab and it fits a Coiltek coil, what am I supposed to do if it doesn't fit a Nugget Finder? Produce a whole different set of rods for Nugget Finder? I still wonder if what Jonathan had suggested might be accurate that the ears of that Nugget Finder have settled in on maybe worn washers, and they are not parallel. It's a little frustrating because I don't understand why the rods fit Minelab coils and Coiltek coils but not a Nugget Finder?Is anyone using the rods on Nugget Finder coils without modification?DocHi DOC,Glad to have that rod deal cleared up. Maybe it's good to have a NF coil around in the back somewhere to test stuff like this with.Flak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank c Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I have the new rods installed on 2 nuggetfinder coils. A soild elipticle and a 20" round SL. Like I said twice before "a little dab will do ya" on the washers and slide in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlakMagnet Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hi Frank,Think we're talking about NF Advantage coils at this point in the discussion.All the best,Flak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyLundy Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Frank, Yes my two coils are the newer Advantage Coils by NuggetFinder, not the older ones that have the standard looking Minelab ears.JP, I can see some plastic's making a memory, but these coils where hanging in my garage all Winter without a lower shaft installed. It hit 80 degrees here yesterday...Doc might just have to make special lower shafts for us Advantage Coil users?Anyways, they work just fine on my other coils and looking forward to a few extra feet in my swing pattern.LuckyLundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredm Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 I have a one year old Advantage NF...the ears do seem to be a little more narrow than Minelab or Coiltec...I tried to change lower rods on the Nf and the rod would not go on...it was because the ears had warped to fit the rod...when I left it sit overnight the ears returned to normal and the rod fit again...I love having a rod on each coil...it saves wear and tear on the ears, and saves time too.fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellukay Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Hello all, This is my first time posting to the fourm so a introduction is in order. My name is Luke and I live in Summit county CO. I'm new to nugget hunting and have not found my first yet. ( kinda hard to detect through 6 feet of snowpack) Any how I really enjoy the fourm and appreciate all of the contributions made by you fine folks. thank you all... now, I bought Doc's rod package (thanks Doc, love it) and I have a NF 14 round mono (last years I think) and it was a bit snug getting it on the shaft but it did go on. All my other coils went on without issue. They were minelab and coiltek. Mabey using a hair dryer to heat up the ears a little and then wedging them apart while they cool would help. Just a thought! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notoriouskelly Posted May 4, 2011 Report Share Posted May 4, 2011 Welcome, Luke.I lived in Summit winter of 1994 - beautiful country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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