oldies1955 Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Ive gotten several different answers from people in the past and would like to add to my confusion on this subject. If a claim is a LOAD claim are you allowed to prospect for PLACER gold on it?Here is information I pulled from the internet but cannot find any direction from the BLM about it...Tks allTom H.Q. What are the differences between a lode claim and a placer claim? A. Lode Claims cover classic veins or lodes having well-defined boundaries and also include other rock in-place bearing valuable mineral deposits. Examples include quartz or other veins bearing gold or other metallic mineral deposits and large volume, but low-grade disseminated metallic deposits, such as Carlin-type gold deposits and copper-bearing granites. Lode claims are usually located as parallelograms with the side lines parallel to the vein or lode (see Figure). Descriptions are by metes and bounds surveys (giving the length and compass bearing of each boundary line from a central point or monument to each corner post, and then sequentially around the perimeter of the claim). Federal statute limits a lode claim to a maximum of 1,500’ in length along the vein or lode. The width is a maximum of 600’, 300’ on either side of the centerline of the vein or lode. The end lines of the lode claim must be parallel to qualify for underground extralateral rights. Extralateral rights involve the rights to minerals in vein or lode form that extend at depth outside the vertical boundaries of the claim.Placer Claims cover all those deposits not subject to lode claims. Originally, placer claims included only deposits of mineral-bearing sand and gravel containing free gold or other detrital minerals. By congressional acts and judicial interpretations, many nonmetallic bedded or layered deposits, such as gypsum and high- calcium limestone, are located as placer claims. Where possible, placer claims are to be located by legal subdivision.The maximum size of a placer claim you may locate is 20 acres. An association of two locators may locate 40 acres, and three may locate 60 acres, etc. The maximum area of an association placer claim permitted by law is 160 acres for eight or more persons. The maximum size of a placer claim for a corporation is 20 acres per claim. Corporations may not locate association placer claims unless they are in association with other private individuals or other corporations as co-locators. The key word here is locators. We have an association of 8 persons that have, in most cases, located 160 acre claims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank c Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Tom PM Sawmill and ask him to view your post .The question you asked sounds silly to me but I am not that knowledgeable on the particulars pertaining to the "laws" or regulations.Sounds like your asking , if you had a load claim whos going to stop you from metal detecting on it or drywashing or wetwashing ???and if you had a placer claim whats stopping you from exploring it with a pick and shovel searching for a load outcropping ???I know there are particulars that pertain to each and Sawmill can probably define each very easily and simply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawmill Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Tom Send a PM with more detail ,and I will answer your questions.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawmill Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Frank Tom's question is not silly,and there is an answer,and any prospector shouldknow it before attempting to prospect period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldies1955 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Probably ought to clarify...... I have found several areas that have load claims on them that look luscious!I was wondering if it is legal to prospect the washes looking for placer gold with the detector.TksTom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawmill Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 TomOnly if you want to get hauled to jail for trespass. It is illegal to prospect onanyone's claim without permission period.What you are suggesting is criminal trespass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldies1955 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Thanks for the answer...thats why I was asking prior to doing anything There are plenty of areas around those claims that are not claimed I can hit.Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawmill Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 TomThis is an after thought. Go to Bills forum and read about the two guys thatwere caught detecting on a lode claim in California. They were doing exactlywhat you are asking about. It didn't work out too well for them either. Regardless of placer or lode,once a discovery is made and the claim is legallylocated and filed, all minerals are withdrawn from the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dorado Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 Sawmill is spot on, but it is always worth asking to get permission. The person that has the lode may not care at all about the surface placer....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausome Posted May 10, 2012 Report Share Posted May 10, 2012 It must be the old school-teaher in me guys,.... but it's Lode... not Load ( but I hope you get a load of gold!!!ausome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldies1955 Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 teaher???? I thought it was teacher DOH! Just messin with ya. Tom H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank c Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Well when I said silly I was under the impression Tom was referring to a claim he or someone he knew well had.I didn't stop to think he may have been referring to any and or all other peoples claims.So I was thinking if it were your own claim whats the difference if you walk around detecting it or grab a pick an shovel an start digging around a bit.Sorry about the mis placed words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausome Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Tom: where's the damn spell-checker!??! Maybe I shouldn't post without my glasses on!! Thankz lode's. ausome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawmill Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Frank I was thinking the same thing,but in the back of my head ,i got the idea he wasasking about a trespass issue. That is why I said it wasn't a silly question, no bigdeal . How hot is it in your neck of the woods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawmill Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Ausome In this case Tom may have the right spelling.You could get loaded into a police cruiser,or get a load of buck shot,so it may be a load claim. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldies1955 Posted May 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 I was just thinking on going onto that claim with a bottle and getting loaded and then do some target practice with my 12 guage and a box of #6 shot .......Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 After beeping for a day and returning to the truck listing to port, I'm sorry that I tought you to shoot one of those lead scatterers. Take your bottle but leave the #6 at home please. I hate lead shot worse than Limburger Cheese. Old Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank c Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 FrankI was thinking the same thing,but in the back of my head ,i got the idea he wasasking about a trespass issue. That is why I said it wasn't a silly question, no bigdeal . How hot is it in your neck of the woods?The mornings are great its starting to get warm in the afternoon.I was out wednesday and by noon it was feeling like the begining of summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
explorer1 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Getting back to Tom's question. About differences between Lode and Placer claims. Perhaps one viewpoint is that Lode is hard rock in place including veins. In line to interpertations by the Blm.Placer generally speaking is in relation to sand and gravel with sometimes water. Plus their other dimension differences and extracting methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuggetslayer Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 The thing is, BLM wants their money for claims bottom line! Correct me if I'm wrong, but there can be a blanket of claims laid over the same claim. For example, placing a placer claim over a load claim, or something like removing black sands garnets. This can be done and legal through the BLM, but they aren't going to protect you from the guy that just got his claim worked over by the legal system. Getting claims is a ton of work, so the owners typically won't back down easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawmill Posted May 13, 2012 Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Nuggetslayer Someone gave you some bogus information.You can not file a placer over a lode claim and gain any rights period.Just the act of filing a placer over a lode automaticly voids the placerfrom the start. Filing a placer over your own lode claim will void bothclaims. But you can overfile a lode claim over your own placer claimand gain rights to both lode and placer. Any lode claim filed over another claim without permission of the firstclaimant is also null and void from the start. Getting rid of an overfileris simple and you do not need the BLM for that job. There is no reasonto let an overfiler get away with it,and it is dumb to let one stay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin nuggethunting Posted May 13, 2012 Admin Report Share Posted May 13, 2012 Hello Guys, Overfilling is illegal and not allowed, but not that it doesn't happen. Many believe if you have a good claim(s), they will just overfile and then the minute your claim(s) expire they will automatically get your claims. This is not true! People do make mistakes when they file, or draw their maps wrong. The BLM in Arizona at least is getting much better catching these things when you file or claim, but they can't catch everything. Rob Allison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Dorado Posted May 14, 2012 Report Share Posted May 14, 2012 In reality, if you file any claim over another claim it can be recognized as mineral trespass. This is because when you file a claim you admit to making a discovery. That discovery in itself is mineral trespass you have admitted to in a legal document! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tundra Posted May 17, 2012 Report Share Posted May 17, 2012 It's a strange world out there!!!!!!!!!!!!Here in Canada you can stake placer over hard rock and vise versa...Doesn't make sense to me for some jack ass to take up 60 acres or so so nobody can use it just for the sake of a mine hole 3' wide by 6'or so highRJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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