Trying to beat the 283 Grammer

[nuggethunting]

Hello All,

The subject of finding or metal detecting big gold nuggets is always interesting. My personal thoughts on targeting trophy gold nuggets (large ones) is to hunt in or around areas that have produced them historically before. There are a number of historical placer districts throughout the US that have been known for larger gold nuggets. Many of these historical placer areas also had "pocket vein" systems or at least the plumbing systems that were capable of making large gold nuggets that would later erode away.

To date, my biggest solid gold nugget is a 283 Grammer found back in 2001 when the Minelab GP Extreme was newest Minelab PI. I found this beauty with a Coiltek 14-inch solid round Monoloop Searchcoil at approx. 28-inch deep. A 9+ ounce solid gold nugget is far from the largest found in Arizona, but then again it's not considered a small nugget by any means.

Historically in this area, nuggets up to 40 ounces were found.

My mentor, Richard Doherty, found thousands of nuggets, but only had one that was over an ounce. Hard to believe a guy that found thousands (probably 10's of thousands) of gold nuggets only found one nugget over an ounce. Due to where he was hunting 90% of the time, the nuggets were known to be from a few grains to maybe a 1/4 ounce in weight. Anything over 1/2 ounce or better was a huge nugget for that area.

I personally believe if you want to target "trophies," then you need to research where "trophies" have been found and target those areas for the best overall chance. That being said, you could hunt those areas your entire lifetime and never find a single one.

Just my thoughts,

Rob Allison

[FlakMagnet]

Hi Rob,

Your mention of RD made me miss him (again).

Beyond his generosity, his ornery-ness and his independence

there was something about that guy that was memorable.

Didn't mean to hijack a nice thread, but RD is worth giving a shout out to.

Best wishes,

[nuggethunting]

Hey Flake,

There were two Richard D's, the one I'm talking about was from Rock Springs, Arizona. I think you might be talking about Richard D. from the Southern California area, but maybe not. Either way, both were stand up guys and will be missed.

Without my mentor, I doubt I would have continued metal detecting due to my lack of patience. Majority of my success was contributed from this guy spending hundreds of hours teaching and allowing me to tag around the various goldfields of Arizona.

Ok, back to those big nuggets ...... where are they?

[Uncle Ron]

Yo All .. I knew both "RDs" they each were unique individuals ... Got to hunt with both, not to the extent that Rob did with RocK Springs Richard Doherty, but had fun and great learning from each one ... Found some nice gold with each and learned to look for certain signs from each ... Great guys in the history of nuggetshooting! ... Cheers, Unc

[Uncle Ron]

Hello All,

The subject of finding or metal detecting big gold nuggets is always interesting. My personal thoughts on targeting trophy gold nuggets (large ones) is to hunt in or around areas that have produced them historically before. There are a number of historical placer districts throughout the US that have been known for larger gold nuggets. Many of these historical placer areas also had "pocket vein" systems or at least the plumbing systems that were capable of making large gold nuggets that would later erode away.

To date, my biggest solid gold nugget is a 283 Grammer found back in 2001 when the Minelab GP Extreme was newest Minelab PI. I found this beauty with a Coiltek 14-inch solid round Monoloop Searchcoil at approx. 28-inch deep. A 9+ ounce solid gold nugget is far from the largest found in Arizona, but then again it's not considered a small nugget by any means.

283Gram (2).jpg

Historically in this area, nuggets up to 40 ounces were found.

My mentor, Richard Doherty, found thousands of nuggets, but only had one that was over an ounce. Hard to believe a guy that found thousands (probably 10's of thousands) of gold nuggets only found one nugget over an ounce. Due to where he was hunting 90% of the time, the nuggets were known to be from a few grains to maybe a 1/4 ounce in weight. Anything over 1/2 ounce or better was a huge nugget for that area.

I personally believe if you want to target "trophies," then you need to research where "trophies" have been found and target those areas for the best overall chance. That being said, you could hunt those areas your entire lifetime and never find a single one.

Just my thoughts,

Rob Allison

I also remember that Mike K. found a deep solid beauty in that area at that time...I think both of you had John B.'s pointy finger in the vicinity, as I recall! Cheers, Unc

[adam]

Geezzzz Rob.....That's a monster ! Do you still have it?

[way2cool]

Is that the one you almost walked away from?

[nuggethunting]

Hey Guys,

That is correct, a friend found this location and found a lot of gold. The area was pretty hammered, all surface nuggets and specimens long gone. The person was curious on how the Minelab PI's would perform on mineralization and depth. After about 4 hours of roaming around, four of us didn't find anything. I ended up walking back to the vehicle and down a very small side gulch. At the bottom I got a faint targets where I could only detect it one direction. I ground balanced several times, figuring it might be mineralization. I ended up scratching over 6 inches off before it actually became a decent target.

With a coil any smaller than what I was using or if I wasn't scrubbing the coil on the ground, I would have missed this 9+ ouncer. Even with the 14-inch right on the ground, the sounds was so faint most wouldn't have even heard it orginally.

Will write more later, have to run out for a bit.

[AZNuggetBob]

That"s a real beauty Rob.
I remember Richard Doerty I met him a couple times in rock springs through Floyd Allen.
Floyd sort of brokered my first SD 2000 through Richard.

"Ok, back to those big nuggets ......"where are they?"
sometimes in a new patch or just one rock flip away in an old patch.sometimes a new machine, new headphones,a new larger coil,or just maybe your hunting skills have improved?
but when you do find one, especially in a old patch. ya have to wonder how you missed it the last time around.
AzNuggetBob

[deathray]

Damn Rob!!! Well, that's only 283 times bigger than my largest, lol.

[goldstudmuffin]

Hi Rob,

Three of the four guys were thrilled!

Does this one count as a trophy? I thought almost everybody has found a trophy nugget.

Some big nuggets are found where there isn't suppose to be any nuggets at all - and no recorded history of any gold.

[frank c]

Thats a BEAUTY RUSS An Robs is INDESCRIBABLE

An I'm always on the warpath for my next BIGUN , Carry on with this thread its a beaut !!

[JIM MCCULLOCH]

Good thread, Robbie. You make a good point, but as Bob says, bigger nuggets can come from just about anywhere. "Historically" the biggest nugget found at Dale, in 1883, weighed 18 oz. But the grapefruit-sized quartz boulder my buddy and I found there contained just over 42 oz. of AU when burned out with HF. That site has produced another 100+ ounces of MUCH smaller stuff. A 3.5 ouncer just surfaced, from serious digging on the part of another pal. Not far from there Richard Delahanty took out 7 and 8 ouncers on a hillside, Serendipity gold, gotta love it. HH Jim

[nuggethunting]

Hey Guys,

Without a doubt, biggies can be found anywhere. That being said, if I was a betting man, I would put my odds in locations where larger nuggets have been found before. Reason being, at least you know the plumbing systems were able to produce and make big gold.

I guess another questions would be, "What are big nuggets?" Some consider 1/4 ounce nuggets big, some might say over an ounce is big, while others might claim big nuggets are 10+ ounces.

There is no question big nuggets (let's say an ounce or better) can be found just about anywhere. However, when I look at my personal collection along with some partners collections, majority of the big nuggets over an ounce were found within a given range of "known big gold country."

This is a great subject, cause I think ultimately we are all looking to join that "One Ouncer" club and beyond.

Hope to hear from more of you.

[barry]

Here's the largest I found in Virginia 6.89 ozt, similar to what I am hearing from the western biggies, this one was 200 plus yard from the other 150 or so other nuggets found at this site. The 1.4 ozt was beside this one but nothing else for a long ways.

[nuggethunting]

Hey Local Digger,

Those are great pieces and lifetime finds for the majority of the US nuggethunters. I've heard of some biggies from Virginia, maybe some of those stories were your nuggets. The word travels fast when big nuggets are discovered.

Thanks for sharing those great finds with us!

Rob Allison

[justindoober]

A one ouncer would be great. I got a short story first three trips out with the 3000 nada. 4th trip 2 tiny ones less than a tenth gram. 6th trip skunked 7th trip new patch total nuggets between my brother me and a few others totaled more than 100 dinks with just a couple being a over a gram and one being over 3. well After that things were good for the small ones for a while. then gold basin second trip there 1/2 ouncer... All within the first 5 months of detecting. Things were great friends told me they felt bad for me cause luck like that couldn't last... They were right been doing it about 3 years now and my collection ain't much bigger than the start of it all. But there is always tomorrow ... well friday . and next monday. and the one after that...

[oldies1955]

A one ouncer would be great. I got a short story first three trips out with the 3000 nada. 4th trip 2 tiny ones less than a tenth gram. 6th trip skunked 7th trip new patch total nuggets between my brother me and a few others totaled more than 100 dinks with just a couple being a over a gram and one being over 3. well After that things were good for the small ones for a while. then gold basin second trip there 1/2 ouncer... All within the first 5 months of detecting. Things were great friends told me they felt bad for me cause luck like that couldn't last... They were right been doing it about 3 years now and my collection ain't much bigger than the start of it all. But there is always tomorrow ... well friday . and next monday. and the one after that...

Just got to remember to be thankful for what we've found so far:)

I know im VERY grateful for the gold ive found.......been in skunksville for a while here...but like you say...theres

always tomarow..friday..sat??...its just around the next bend in the right wash

Good luck to ya.

Tom

[justindoober]

True story Tom!

[AZNuggetBob]

Rob
I think I understand what your saying and I agree with you. there are some known gold areas that because of the geology are just not good for detectors.
The gold is notably fine or sugar gold as I call it or even micron and although larger high grade chunks can be detected they are rare so not an area I waste a lot of time on.
As many of us know many detectors generally speaking, dont detect fine gold or even masses of fine gold well including (similar)sponge gold.
Ive actually found if your in an area like this VLF detectors detect these types of deposits better. but without a lot of detecting experience can easily be confused with just high mineralization deposits,Iron black sand etc. or even hot rocks. one thing you should always keep in mind when your doing research on an area dont rely on the total ounces produced, make sure the gold history is chunky solid masses

and not fine or micron. (check the placer history)

Im enjoying seeing these monster nuggets keep them coming guys.

AzNuggetBob

Here is one of my all time favorite finds, 9-1/4 ounces I called it the chicken wing nugget.

The white on it is caliche the black is smoky quartz.

[nuggethunting]

Hey AZNuggetBob,

Great looking nugget. Sure wish I knew where that one came from.

I think when it comes to finding gold vs. finding gold nuggets, they are different. To detect a nugget just anywhere in my opinion is a lot more difficult than finding a speck of gold with a pan.

When I was younger I enrolled in college to become an exploration geologist. I had to study structural, physical and economic geology, along with all the mineralology classes. We also had to spend time in the field plotting, mapping and surveying geologic structures, faults and such. Along with all this studying, I tried to purchase any old bulletins, books and whatever I could collect on gold geology and ore deposits. I have hundreds of books, from the early 1800's until present on just about any subject on gold.

With all this information I had and studied, I thought I had this "gold thing" licked. Heck, it's going to be a piece of cake now, as I know all this information on what to look for, I'm going to find pounds of gold.

Don't get me wrong, all this information I studied and obtained was great and did help, but by no means did it make me find anymore gold or patches than not knowing any of this. I actually had better luck exploring and just using common sense than using all this geologic information.

In my opinion, gold nuggets are different when it comes to geology. There are no books that really explain why nuggets are formed, what makes then bigger or anything along those lines. Gold nuggets can pop out just about anywhere, whether the geology looks "text book" or not. It don't take a major quartz vein running across the hillside, but rather just a tiny, narrow stringer can produce some of the best gold nuggets.

Gold nugget hunting is unique in a way. If you "text book" yourself and only look for what the text books say are good areas for gold, then you're probably walking over and past a lot of gold nugget areas.

One last thing, you don't need or have to see quartz to find gold. Quartz is the most abundance mineral on the surface of the Earth, so you will find more of it than any other mineral. There is by far more barren or "bull" quartz out there then mineralized "metal bearing" quartz.

This is a great subject and I'm not sure there are any real experts.

[Uncle Ron]

That's sure true, Rob ... In my experience, the best rule for finding gold is, "This place looks like that other place I found nuggets." ... That plus generally looking for a certain combination of minerals like schist, pyrite, ironstone, greenstore and quartz...But you just never know ... I once hit a nice patch of 1/4 to 1 ounce nuggets in dark gray hot basalt with none of the minerals mentioned above ...It's fun mystery to spend your life trying to solve!!! Cheers, Unc

[AZNuggetBob]

Rob

I learned a lot of this working at placer mines or building leach mines both chemically and geologically and of course tons of books.

as a matter of fact I just got a set of books that explain the new processes of dealing with complex ores, but thats another chapter.

but I think this is were we disagree.

The processes that form many gold nuggets is well known and fairly well understood.

I like to say its almost like baking a cake.

you just have to have all the right ingredients and temperatures.

I feel that once you understand these ingrediants and processes lets say, it can (help) you find hard rock deposits/nuggets.

One proccess is geothermal (near volcanic activity)or hydrothermal(smokers under the ocean).its nothing more than simple precipitation.

simply put, natural solutions with high heat and high acidic content remove metals from deep in the earth and carry minute gold particles (and other metals)with steam and hot solutions are forced up thru fissures, faults and cracks or even (permeable) rock until they reach an area were the

ph changes becoming alkalin and the temperatures of the solutions begin cooling the gold particles and other metals bond together and fall out of solution or bond together in and fill a void in the rock or quartz and over time (millions of years) and with natural errotion and or cataclysmic events (earth quakes, tectonic plate shuffle,flooding,

bingo a nugget is born.

So basicly all we do at the leach mines is mimic nature, over and over again and again in a closed circuit. We crush the ore ad solution that carries the metal and we precipe it out of the solution or electroplate it out.

Personaly I believe that some metalic mineral deposits are zapped out of solutions from lightning strikes!

I've argued this theory for years. natural electroplating! again and again over hundreds of thousands of years your going to get some metal buildup.

This would also may exsplain rich surface pocket deposits, well known but have yet to be explained with any certanty. but another possiblity is they are formed from Old smokers under the ocean.

as soon as the hot solutions come up under the ocean (when the land was covered with ocean)the hit the cool high alkalin water they precipitate.Boom drop out in a pile.

I will agree with you on this Rob. going by the book can hurt you here is some examples. I have hunted some areas that didnt seem to have all the right ingedients and I ran into a patch.

They may have only had a little quartz or some red dirt. but once I sat back and studied the patch it all started to make sence. errotion had taken away many of the indicators.

If you went down stream so to speak they were there, way down there. sometimes miles.

the nuggets had hung back and the the lighter materials eroded down.

But this is only one part of the story. I have also seen nuggets come from other types of ores that have nothing to do with Quartz, greenstone,hemitite and no red dirt?

Finding gold in place still in the hardrock is not nessisarily going to make it easy to find any gold nuggets the vein may have produced over time that may have also traveled for miles..

That's a whole new chapter.

Just my two cents.

AzNuggetBob

Oh forgot to say that chicken wing nugget was found at Rich Hill Az. with a Minelab 2100.

[nuggethunting]

Hey AzNuggetBob,

I think we actually agree on most stuff, just wanted to keep it simple. Without a doubt, researching ore bodies, mineralized and contact zones, low angle faults can help in finding nuggets.

The major kicker is, someone might research a hardrock zone that produced 200,000 ounces of gold and lets say 50,000 ounces of silver in the late 1800's. When reading this alone, anyone and their brother would say we need to search there! However, without knowing the makeup of the gold, it all could be microscopic and locked up in sulphides. There might not be any free milling gold in this system, meaning the probability of finding nugget gold would be very low, especially below the "zone of oxidation."

Many rich hardrock districts produced very minimal amounts of placer gold, while others having the right geology, lets say more "free milling and pocket bearing" veins might have produced historically placers.

The subject is very complex, but is very interesting to discuss on all fronts.

Rob Allison

[seeker]

Something I have always realized, it is the curious, good detectorist that bangs out the Big Ones... Something makes you pause and check, kick off some of the dirt or smooth the spot so you can get the coil flat on the ground.............Geo

I have dug a lot of Deep coins at the beach in Hawaii with my Excal, no tone, just a break in the threshold